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Trump and Jerusalem


BBsq69
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Wow he's proven he can keep a promise and that he's either an evening bigger idiot than we thought or he genuinely does not give a flying **** what happens outside his borders ... or actually the Israelis are privy to the same information Putin has on him.

More seriously his father was a personal friend of that well known moderate leader Benjamin Netanyahu.

If there were ever to be a peace treaty between the Israelis and the Palestinians then Jerusalem would have to be divided ... except for the reality of religious (let's call it that rather than ethnic) cleansing. Then Israel would have the right to declare West Jerusalem its capital. 

The conclusion of many over here is just thought what would appeal to his electorate in the US and fuck world peace. The unholy Trinity of the US, Saudia Arabia (almost if not the worst state in the world) and Israel (which carries out policies no other country would dare) rides again.

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 What the hell does where the US put their embassy have to do with the 2000 yr old fight between the Sunni and Shite Muslim's. How much of an ally has the Shite Muslim Palestine been to the US ? For all the help we have given them over the years,  you must ask what benefit has this been to the US. Trump is only carrying through with policies that those before him didn't have the guts to accomplish. Reagan, Bush 1, Clinton, Bush 2 and of Oslama Obama the Muslim bow down to thee Shite Muslium.

It has become obvious that the central axis of conflict in the Middle East today is no longer the Arab-Israeli conflict, but rather the conflict within Islam between Sunnis and Shiites. This war lies behind the ongoing bloodbath in Syria, which pits the Alawite regime, backed by Shiite Iran, against the Sunni Muslim majority of Syria, backed by Saudi Arabia and Qatar.

For many years, the Sunni-Shiite war also fed the internal conflict in Lebanon, in which the Shiites emerged victorious through Hezbollah. The Sunni-Shiite struggle was also behind the Shiite insurrection in Bahrain against its Sunni rulers, and it explains a good part of the civil war in Yemen where Zayidi Shiites have been battling the country’s Sunni-led government. Looking at the mounting tensions in the Middle East, Mohammad Kharroub, a columnist for the Jordanian daily al-Ra’I, wrote this month about the possibility of a full-scale war breaking out between the Sunnis and the Shiites.

Right now, Israeli interests appear to be aligned with the Sunnis in this struggle, largely because Iran supports the Shiites’ quest for power. But moving beyond the present, is it true that Israel’s interests are permanently aligned with the Sunni world against the Shiites? Vali Nasr, a former U.S. official who was born in Tehran, reminds his readers of the stereotypes held in the U.S. defense establishment on the Sunni-Shiite split: He quotes a Pentagon official in the 1980s who said that the Shiites were “bloodthirsty, baby-eating monsters.”

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9 hours ago, Thestarider said:

didn't have the guts

= had the common sense not to

By any measure the treatment of the Israels of the Palestinians has been an international disgrace. Israel has every right to its own security. What it does not have a right to is bulldoze people's houses because they have a different religion and the policy is settlement is abhorrent. This is not to say they are the only country with poor human rights record based on race or religion but they are probably the most sophisticated one.

However I do agree with you, the US should no take sides in what you say is Sunni-Shiite problem but is really a Saudi-Iran problem. It is very sad what has happened to the sophisticated country that used to be known as Persia ... Saudi has never been sophisticated and has already it seems corrupted Turkey from its secular ways which actually has been the Saud family policy since the 18th century as a reaction to the power of the Ottoman Empire. Quite frankly the lack of support for the Sunni - yes Sunni - Palestinians has been a disgrace which is what forced them to turn to Iran.

In short Iran uses the Shiites and the House of Saud, and its naughty impossibly wealth naughty child Qatar use the Sunni for the own political power games. Although TBH I am not even sure what Qatar's motives are. They did support IS and yet we are playing the 2022 World Cup there - wow there's punishment. Anyway the House of Saud, the ruling Qatari and the rich in the UAE have their own religion Wahabism, founded by a member of the House of Saud, which is the true inspiration for anti-Western, anti-Shiite and even anti-Sunni who don't bow down to them even though they claim to be Sunni. Islam needs to sort itself out before large parts of the world burn.

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On 12/11/2017 at 7:33 AM, BBsq69 said:

Wow he's proven he can keep a promise and that he's either an evening bigger idiot than we thought or he genuinely does not give a flying **** what happens outside his borders ... or actually the Israelis are privy to the same information Putin has on him.

More seriously his father was a personal friend of that well known moderate leader Benjamin Netanyahu.

If there were ever to be a peace treaty between the Israelis and the Palestinians then Jerusalem would have to be divided ... except for the reality of religious (let's call it that rather than ethnic) cleansing. Then Israel would have the right to declare West Jerusalem its capital. 

The conclusion of many over here is just thought what would appeal to his electorate in the US and fuck world peace. The unholy Trinity of the US, Saudia Arabia (almost if not the worst state in the world) and Israel (which carries out policies no other country would dare) rides again.

Europe has already been conquered by Islam.It's just that native Europeans have yet to realize it.

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14 hours ago, Ridgerunner said:

Europe has already been conquered by Islam.It's just that native Europeans have yet to realize it.

Europe has been way too tolerant especially regarding what going on in mosques or the main problem madrasas. These are where for the last 40 years under a massive funding program of 10s of billions the Saudis have promoted their hateful version of their religion, wahabism. So although many of the parents thought they were sending their children to good Muslim schools just like many think they send their children to Sunday school, they were actually being brainwashed into supporting hatred of Western values.

Europe has many different sources of Muslims due to our various empires. In the UK most are Pakistani from a few villages in the north whose members fought for the allies in WWII. It is very unfortunate that in India that a cleric had developed a form of Islam not dissimilar which then became popular in this area leaving them ripe for the beliefs promoted in the madrasas. Because of war in that area - you may have heard of the vile Pakistan Taliban, more fanatic but less ingrained than the actual Taliban whose origins are ethnic rather than religious - Saudi funded madrasas are the only form of education. As well as the madrasas in the UK, the population is continually supplemented by brides from this area who have attended these madrasas plus the village elders hold away over large swathes of their cohort in the UK. This explains a lot of the radicalism here but there any many other Muslim groups from areas all around the world but the reach of the madrasas is global.
 

The French who are less tolerant have even more Muslims largely from North Africa which has especially since the Arab spring have  a particular problem with Tunisians who the Wahabis targetted in the chaos. The Tunisians are the largest contributors to IS in terms of foreign fighters. North Africa had until very recently mean far more moderate but notice how the Muslim brotherhood took over Egypt before the military stepped in and the Qatari, with misguided UK and US support, deposed and killed Gadaffi.

The Germans have the Turks, far more moderate at least until the evil would be dictator Erdogan took over using religion to consolidate his power base in a country which had hitherto been famously secular - not good, but secular. Of course he is the only powerful politician to use religion. At the moment in Europe despite names of parties such as Christian Democrats ruling we are mercifully free of that affliction.

The Dutch have Indonesians and the Belgians have Morrocans and Turks although they had little previous history of being raical until IS.

In fact if you look at it, it is almost as though there has been a plan (there hasn't because most of the seeds were set last century way before radical Islam existed outside the House of Saud's influence) to populate every country in Western Europe. The increase in population especially recently has been frightening but it has been largely internal rather than via immigration. No prizes for guessing which organisations have encouraged these population increases. In 30 years as much as 10% of the population in several European countries will stand at 10% perhaps in 30 more it will be 20%. Unless we stop the madrasas now and control the mosques we have a real problem on our hands.

Because of geography and history the US has been lucky but imagine if Mexico had been converted ...

Now you may have seen the House of Saud suddenly appearing to turn more moderate but under the surface its human rights record is getting rapidly worse with the executions of children increasing alarming while the US and others cozy up to it and they attempt to blame it's bad child Qatar. The effect of the change of policy in the 1970s has encouraged/forced other Muslim countries to become increasingly less moderate, hence modern day Iran and their agent Hamas and Hezbollah. The former have turned the barely Sunni Palestinians in Gaza into ones that have become more fanatically religious although not Shiite. 

The reason for this was actually graphically shown in Big Brother. They put a couple of Muslims in the house. There was a moderate Muslim who was confronted by a female gang member about how he was a "Bad Muslim" and should be ashamed of himself for mixing with men lusting after white women, not praying all the time, being possibly gay and above all for drinking alcohol. The guy was mostly harmless although did get expelled for spitting in someone's face but she threatened to have him killed for bring a poor example of his faith. She was expelled for that but the "You are not a good Muslim mantra" is destroying moderates all over the place so 20 years ago there was no Muslim problem, there is now and the primary cause really isn't the numbers but the brainwashing and intimidation.

So the West should close down these schools, reintegrate the Muslim population and above all stop being friends with the Saudis. They are the true enemy of the West and yet we sell them billions if not trillions of arms! In return the Arabs leave Israel alone and persuade the US and others that Iran's is problem. Iran fought IS, the Saudis sent one female pilot over for a publicity stunt. The West is being conned. The West is fully aware of this, but in turn for selling their souls to Satan (it is a phrase, I am an atheist remember) Israel gets protected and the arms industry and certain individuals in the West through oil interests make lots of money so they don't care. Not hard to work out why Trump has cozied back up to the true enemy isn't it as almost every Western leader has done beforehand.

Actually although we know Trump does not give a fig for the Middle East except for the reasons stated, this may lead to more chaos in more Muslim countries making their citizens vulnerable to yet me Wahabi inspired radical thought and the Saudi's grand plan of expansion of influence gets another boost as it did with the second Iraq war and the Arab spring. 

This is ignoring what the Arabs are doing to Africa and elsewhere in the world. Here South East Asia take lots a money and we'll look after your education system!   

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  • 1 month later...
On 12/12/2017 at 11:59 PM, BBsq69 said:

Europe has been way too tolerant especially regarding what going on in mosques or the main problem madrasas. These are where for the last 40 years under a massive funding program of 10s of billions the Saudis have promoted their hateful version of their religion, wahabism. So although many of the parents thought they were sending their children to good Muslim schools just like many think they send their children to Sunday school, they were actually being brainwashed into supporting hatred of Western values.

Europe has many different sources of Muslims due to our various empires. In the UK most are Pakistani from a few villages in the north whose members fought for the allies in WWII. It is very unfortunate that in India that a cleric had developed a form of Islam not dissimilar which then became popular in this area leaving them ripe for the beliefs promoted in the madrasas. Because of war in that area - you may have heard of the vile Pakistan Taliban, more fanatic but less ingrained than the actual Taliban whose origins are ethnic rather than religious - Saudi funded madrasas are the only form of education. As well as the madrasas in the UK, the population is continually supplemented by brides from this area who have attended these madrasas plus the village elders hold away over large swathes of their cohort in the UK. This explains a lot of the radicalism here but there any many other Muslim groups from areas all around the world but the reach of the madrasas is global.
 

The French who are less tolerant have even more Muslims largely from North Africa which has especially since the Arab spring have  a particular problem with Tunisians who the Wahabis targetted in the chaos. The Tunisians are the largest contributors to IS in terms of foreign fighters. North Africa had until very recently mean far more moderate but notice how the Muslim brotherhood took over Egypt before the military stepped in and the Qatari, with misguided UK and US support, deposed and killed Gadaffi.

The Germans have the Turks, far more moderate at least until the evil would be dictator Erdogan took over using religion to consolidate his power base in a country which had hitherto been famously secular - not good, but secular. Of course he is the only powerful politician to use religion. At the moment in Europe despite names of parties such as Christian Democrats ruling we are mercifully free of that affliction.

The Dutch have Indonesians and the Belgians have Morrocans and Turks although they had little previous history of being raical until IS.

In fact if you look at it, it is almost as though there has been a plan (there hasn't because most of the seeds were set last century way before radical Islam existed outside the House of Saud's influence) to populate every country in Western Europe. The increase in population especially recently has been frightening but it has been largely internal rather than via immigration. No prizes for guessing which organisations have encouraged these population increases. In 30 years as much as 10% of the population in several European countries will stand at 10% perhaps in 30 more it will be 20%. Unless we stop the madrasas now and control the mosques we have a real problem on our hands.

Because of geography and history the US has been lucky but imagine if Mexico had been converted ...

Now you may have seen the House of Saud suddenly appearing to turn more moderate but under the surface its human rights record is getting rapidly worse with the executions of children increasing alarming while the US and others cozy up to it and they attempt to blame it's bad child Qatar. The effect of the change of policy in the 1970s has encouraged/forced other Muslim countries to become increasingly less moderate, hence modern day Iran and their agent Hamas and Hezbollah. The former have turned the barely Sunni Palestinians in Gaza into ones that have become more fanatically religious although not Shiite. 

The reason for this was actually graphically shown in Big Brother. They put a couple of Muslims in the house. There was a moderate Muslim who was confronted by a female gang member about how he was a "Bad Muslim" and should be ashamed of himself for mixing with men lusting after white women, not praying all the time, being possibly gay and above all for drinking alcohol. The guy was mostly harmless although did get expelled for spitting in someone's face but she threatened to have him killed for bring a poor example of his faith. She was expelled for that but the "You are not a good Muslim mantra" is destroying moderates all over the place so 20 years ago there was no Muslim problem, there is now and the primary cause really isn't the numbers but the brainwashing and intimidation.

So the West should close down these schools, reintegrate the Muslim population and above all stop being friends with the Saudis. They are the true enemy of the West and yet we sell them billions if not trillions of arms! In return the Arabs leave Israel alone and persuade the US and others that Iran's is problem. Iran fought IS, the Saudis sent one female pilot over for a publicity stunt. The West is being conned. The West is fully aware of this, but in turn for selling their souls to Satan (it is a phrase, I am an atheist remember) Israel gets protected and the arms industry and certain individuals in the West through oil interests make lots of money so they don't care. Not hard to work out why Trump has cozied back up to the true enemy isn't it as almost every Western leader has done beforehand.

Actually although we know Trump does not give a fig for the Middle East except for the reasons stated, this may lead to more chaos in more Muslim countries making their citizens vulnerable to yet me Wahabi inspired radical thought and the Saudi's grand plan of expansion of influence gets another boost as it did with the second Iraq war and the Arab spring. 

This is ignoring what the Arabs are doing to Africa and elsewhere in the world. Here South East Asia take lots a money and we'll look after your education system!   

I back Israel all the way

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  • 6 months later...

Trump tweeted:

The Iran sanctions have officially been cast. These are the most biting sanctions ever imposed, and in November they ratchet up to yet another level. Anyone doing business with Iran will NOT be doing business with the United States. I am asking for WORLD PEACE, nothing less!

A fine last sentiment but of course my problem with this is:

Yes Iran are a bad country who promote terrorism outside their own borders, but then even worse globally are Saudi Arabia who the West especially the US are allies with. Iran's terrorism is aimed at Israel and Saudi Arabia, and is largely limit to the Middle East. The Saudis sponsor global terrorism in the Middle East, Eat Africa, West Africa, South East Asia, the 'Stans, and even Europe. And while 9/11 was not a Saudi plot, it was largely Saudi citizens working for a Saudi.

Iran have actually been fighting IS, something not unsurprisingly the Saudis are unwilling to do except in their own country. What happens outside Saudi Arabia, they could not give a flying fuck about. Remember the started the war in Syria encourage and funding an uprising. Qatar specifically funded IS, but alot of money also came from Saudi and UAE individuals - and by that I mean members of the Royal Families which govern thes countries. Iran has a bad human rights record and it is getting worse but it is nowhere near as bad as SA.

So where do Israel fit in with this? The question is "Do you believe that if Iran moved away with Hamas, Israel would suddenly treat the Palestinians with any respect whatsoever? Many Israeli citizens would but the like of Netanyahu will never be satisfied until there are no Arabs between in Israel, the Gaza strip prison camp, and the West Bank.The Palestinians(*), who have been there 1000s of years, basically suffer from apartheid with increasingly shrinking land and resources thanks to abhorrent settlement policies which the rest of the world are disgusted by but do nothing to stop. i do remember the way the Israelis treated the southern Lebanese before Hezbollah became a major force and again it was almost as though these people are less than human to them.

So yes Iran like North Korea need to be stopped but turning a blind eye to atrocities from friendly nations delegitimises this behaviour.    

* In the Balfour declaration it clearly states that the Israel had a duty to the Palestinians. 

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