BREX(SH)IT

[Dave 27]

23 minutes ago, Robwin said:

To be honest I find those remarks rather insulting as I would never say the Scots are as thick as shit or the English are superior. Sounds as though you are believing the SNP'S bullshit propaganda again. They are just a very devious and decisive bunch who are not doing Scotland any favours at all by peddling obnoxious views.

For a start that post was meant to be a dig with no intention of reopening our spat.

just to jog your memory though you were a little insulting yourself with your "freebies" remark and "disappearing as quick as RlC members".

That was all a heavy inference that Scotland only survives because of handouts from the UK government.

As for SNP bullshit propaganda we get more than our fair share of UK government bullshit propaganda up here which you would never hear of or recognise..

As you well know we are a small nation  and contribute per head of population what we can .

Just for the record yes I do want Indendence but irrespective of what the SNP's manifesto is for it  if I'm not happy with their plans I would not hesitate to vote no.

if you feel that Scotland is a burden to the rest of the UK why are the government so determined to keep us as part of the UK.

Please reply to this buddy cos I'm finished with this subject and I definitely didn't mean to be insulting.

 

[Robwin]

37 minutes ago, Dave 27 said:

For a start that post was meant to be a dig with no intention of reopening our spat.

just to jog your memory though you were a little insulting yourself with your "freebies" remark and "disappearing as quick as RlC members".

That was all a heavy inference that Scotland only survives because of handouts from the UK government.

As for SNP bullshit propaganda we get more than our fair share of UK government bullshit propaganda up here which you would never hear of or recognise..

As you well know we are a small nation  and contribute per head of population what we can .

Just for the record yes I do want Indendence but irrespective of what the SNP's manifesto is for it  if I'm not happy with their plans I would not hesitate to vote no.

if you feel that Scotland is a burden to the rest of the UK why are the government so determined to keep us as part of the UK.

Please reply to this buddy cos I'm finished with this subject and I definitely didn't mean to be insulting.

 

Yeah we all get a bit carried away sometimes just normal reactions really. I don't like the word hand outs let's call it a subsidy but it is a fact that Scotland does get a bigger subsidy per head of person than the English do, it's called the Barnett formula. Now why this is so I don't know but it does piss off a lot of the English especially when you get so many services free. No ones calling Scotland a burden as the majority want a United kingdom but it does once again piss many off when it seems that Sturgeon only ever seems to have one agenda she keeps banging on about, that being independence. Even many Scots say the SNP are not concentrating as much on home policy as they seem to do on this subject. It's a good discussion as long as we keep on the straight and narrow 👍

[van the man]

Could you explain how Scotland could survive on their own? Nicola (the racist English hater) published a budget that relied upon a Oil price of more than $100 a barrel. She admitted that she would have to revise her budget in the light of the current oil price. Scotland would immediately be a bankrupt nation and could not be admitted into the EU as a stand alone nation.

In addition Scotland would not have a currency to use. The Bank of England would not be the lender of last resort. Scotland would have to invent their own currency (as they could not join the EU and the Euro because of their bankrupt state). Assuming they invented the Scottish Pound the exchange rate between the two could not be 1:1. Scotland would immediately suffer a huge bout of inflation. 

Scotland would not have any armed forces worthy of the name.

Scotland would have to take their share of the UK national debt which would swamp their budget and confirm their bankrupt nation status which again would confirm their inability to join the EU and the Euro.

All of the benefits of the Barnett formula would of course be lost.

As for the UK parliament, independence would at least remove the inequity of the number of MP's provided by Scotland. The West Lothian Question would no longer need to be answered. (Of course it never has been answered by the SNP which continues to vote on English only issues) The Tories would then easily win any election and socialism would be once and for all be eliminated as a political force in the remaining UK. 

I am proud to be British (I usually answer the question about my nationality as being a Brit) and proud of the fact that previous generation of my family died fighting alongside Scots). That said, the inequality of representation and social spending is becoming untenable. I would happily move to a federal form of government. An English parliament to run alongside a Scottish parliament. What could be fairer. An English level of public spending that allows me to have free prescriptions, free health and social care, free bridge tolls, free university entrance. Which is the only country in the UK to have all these things already?

Scottish people are ultimately pragmatic and would never vote for independence knowing their pensions and welfare benefits would largely disappear. Of course this was proven when the SNP's Scottish referendum saw a huge rejection of independence 55.3% said no thanks 44.7% said yes please. This was said to be a 'once in a lifetime' vote. The life of a 6 year old if Nicola gets her way!!!) By the way I'm sure Nicola would support an English Referendum to allow the English to vote on whether we wanted to stay in the UK or prefer independence from Scotland!!!! I think the vote would be slightly (!!!!!!!!)  in favour of independence from Scotland!!!!

Let's imagine a parallel universe where the Scots voted for independence from the UK. Nicola would immediately apply for membership of the EU and agree to the adoption of the Euro (all new members have to join the Eurozone)

This is despite the fact 60% of all £81.4 billion exports go to the rest of the UK. £17.6 billion (22%) go to the rest of the world leaving only £14.9 billion that goes to the EU (18%)!  Of course in the real universe the EU would reject Scotland's application but let's stay in the parallel one.

Exports represent 53% of Scotland's GDP.  49.5% of exports are Services 34.9% are Manufactured goods  totalling 84% of Scotland's exports. All of these numbers are from the Scottish government and do not include off shore activity.  Note Services are not part of the EU Single Market (The EU don't like Services because they are useless at it and the UK dominates the Services market!!)

The biggest sector of the Manufacturing exports is Food and Drink £10 billion (half of this is Spirits - Everyone loves Scotch!!!)

Because the EU is seeking to punish the UK for daring to want to leave their mafia organisation the likelihood is high tariffs will apply to all trade. This will mean 60% of Scotland's exports will have high tariffs applied in retaliation. 

Scotland export only 18% of their goods and services to the EU with 60% going to the rest of the UK and 22% to the rest of the world yet despite these numbers Nicola says leaving the UK would be a great thing for Scotland but leaving the EU would be a disaster!!!!! Nicola's blind hate of the English seems to distort her ability to understand maths!!!

However, none of these numbers matter one iota.

Like the UK wanting out of the EU economics is the least important issue. Independence, Freedom and Control are far more important. I would happily support Scotland's demands for independence. It would be helpful if the SNP supported Brexit. Firstly the UK becomes independent and then almost immediately Scotland can be given independence and leave the UK. From an English point of view  'what's not to like' about such an outcome!!!!!!! Freedom from the EU and Freedom from Scotland and the SNP!!!!!

 Bliss!!!!!!!!

 

 

 

[Foamy T. Squirrel]

Keep rolling on this thread. Since my ancestry traces back to Scots, Brits, and Irish (both north and south), I find these disputes very interesting. Certainly it's better than all the cheesy bullshit over at the US Domestic Politics threads, which are just reruns that we Yankees have already seen too many times.

We have trouble understanding some of it, but I do appreciate that there are serious differences in points of view. Really serious. The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland was once THE world power. I'd rather see it rise again than have Communist China dominate the Earth or Russia regain its former Warsaw slave states or Iran to start nuking other's territory. It is time for both the US and the UK to solve their internal political chaos, because there are serious threats out there in the world, and those governments are taking advantage of our inability so solve our internal problems.

I realize that BBsq wants to explain procedures. The UK's constitutional monarchy is very different from my federal democratic-republican constitutional government form. Sadly, they are both riddled with endless greedy politicians and lawyers that distort versions of truth for their own benefit. Still, I find it interesting, and wonder what the next move could be regarding Brexit, and how you folks will finally decide on a solution to this rather huge problem.

(Under no circumstances should fish & chips, local ales, single malt Scotch, Irish whisky, museums, or Englishy-style speech be harmed by the final decision. I don't care about the figgy pudding or the spotted dick, so do what thou wilt with those. 😁)

 

[Alladino]

On 10/5/2019 at 7:57 AM, Foamy T. Squirrel said:

Keep rolling on this thread. Since my ancestry traces back to Scots, Brits, and Irish (both north and south), I find these disputes very interesting. Certainly it's better than all the cheesy bullshit over at the US Domestic Politics threads, which are just reruns that we Yankees have already seen too many times.

We have trouble understanding some of it, but I do appreciate that there are serious differences in points of view. Really serious. The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland was once THE world power. I'd rather see it rise again than have Communist China dominate the Earth or Russia regain its former Warsaw slave states or Iran to start nuking other's territory. It is time for both the US and the UK to solve their internal political chaos, because there are serious threats out there in the world, and those governments are taking advantage of our inability so solve our internal problems.

I realize that BBsq wants to explain procedures. The UK's constitutional monarchy is very different from my federal democratic-republican constitutional government form. Sadly, they are both riddled with endless greedy politicians and lawyers that distort versions of truth for their own benefit. Still, I find it interesting, and wonder what the next move could be regarding Brexit, and how you folks will finally decide on a solution to this rather huge problem.

(Under no circumstances should fish & chips, local ales, single malt Scotch, Irish whisky, museums, or Englishy-style speech be harmed by the final decision. I don't care about the figgy pudding or the spotted dick, so do what thou wilt with those. 😁)

 

Meanwhile, I think a BEXIT without a deal is most likely. 

However, this has little to do with the form of government instead it is based on populism. People in GB whose economic situation has deteriorated over the years are looking for someone guilty and they are open to simple explanations. The EU is a suitable scapegoat. Simplified spoken, they want the BREXIT because they have associated it with the hope of achieving a positive turnaround. A second influence is clearly the fear of alienation. 

 

 

As mentioned, I no longer believe in a turnaround in BREXIT. The question now is more what will happen after the BREXIT. If we neglect the wishful thinking of the populists, the prospects for the future of GB look bad. Just as it is slowly becoming apparent in the U.S. that Trump is damaging the economy in the medium term, a major problem will also arise in the UK in the short and medium term. About 50% of GB's exports and imports are with the EU. A large part of the banking sector benefited enormously from the link to the EU market. Perhaps Trump will give them a trade Agreement, because he wants to harm the EU, but this will certainly not compensate for all the economic disadvantage. For Trump a promise of today means nothing tomorrow. As soon as his goals are achieved (BREXIT without deal), he'll want to play the strong man again: "America First!".

At the end GB will have to enter into an agreement with the EU. However, this will have to fit into the scheme similar to the agrements the EU has with other countries. That's something many people in the UK do not seems to understand. GB is not on an equal footing with the EU (like they are also not with the U.S.). They can choose what they do not want, but as soon as they want something, the can only select from what is made available. BREXIT means not to be the decisive power any more. 

 

 

[Ridgerunner]

Maybe British workers want Brexit because they are tired of supporting lazy freeloaders in Greece, Spain and Italy.

[Robwin]

On 9/27/2019 at 11:49 PM, van the man said:

Like the UK wanting out of the EU economics is the least important issue. Independence, Freedom and Control are far more important. I would happily support Scotland's demands for independence. It would be helpful if the SNP supported Brexit. Firstly the UK becomes independent and then almost immediately Scotland can be given independence and leave the UK. From an English point of view  'what's not to like' about such an outcome!!!!!!! Freedom from the EU and Freedom from Scotland and the SNP!!!!!

 Bliss!!!

Agree with you, a well written piece.

The SNP really do need to be careful what they wish for as I don't think they even have the population to support themselves especially not with their current level of benefits which the Scottish receive free. There are only about 5 million people in the whole of Scotland whereas there are nearly 7 million in London alone lol. UK pop. Is around 70 million now.

Sturgeon really wants to get her head out of her ass as if there ever was a UK referendum on them gaining independence they would be gone in a flash and that is with having full respect for Scotland. The majority of the English really are fed up with the SNP'S constant whining on about it and her hatred for the English.

[Ridgerunner]

On 10/7/2019 at 3:36 PM, Alladino said:

Meanwhile, I think a BEXIT without a deal is most likely. 

However, this has little to do with the form of government instead it is based on populism. People in GB whose economic situation has deteriorated over the years are looking for someone guilty and they are open to simple explanations. The EU is a suitable scapegoat. Simplified spoken, they want the BREXIT because they have associated it with the hope of achieving a positive turnaround. A second influence is clearly the fear of alienation. 

 

 

As mentioned, I no longer believe in a turnaround in BREXIT. The question now is more what will happen after the BREXIT. If we neglect the wishful thinking of the populists, the prospects for the future of GB look bad. Just as it is slowly becoming apparent in the U.S. that Trump is damaging the economy in the medium term, a major problem will also arise in the UK in the short and medium term. About 50% of GB's exports and imports are with the EU. A large part of the banking sector benefited enormously from the link to the EU market. Perhaps Trump will give them a trade Agreement, because he wants to harm the EU, but this will certainly not compensate for all the economic disadvantage. For Trump a promise of today means nothing tomorrow. As soon as his goals are achieved (BREXIT without deal), he'll want to play the strong man again: "America First!".

At the end GB will have to enter into an agreement with the EU. However, this will have to fit into the scheme similar to the agrements the EU has with other countries. That's something many people in the UK do not seems to understand. GB is not on an equal footing with the EU (like they are also not with the U.S.). They can choose what they do not want, but as soon as they want something, the can only select from what is made available. BREXIT means not to be the decisive power any more. 

 

 

And all the so called brilliant economists said Donald Trump would destroy the U.S. economy.

[Robwin]

Thinking of employing the bastard ASAP. 

[Dave 27]

2 hours ago, Robwin said:

Agree with you, a well written piece.

The SNP really do need to be careful what they wish for as I don't think they even have the population to support themselves especially not with their current level of benefits which the Scottish receive free. There are only about 5 million people in the whole of Scotland whereas there are nearly 7 million in London alone lol. UK pop. Is around 70 million now.

Sturgeon really wants to get her head out of her ass as if there ever was a UK referendum on them gaining independence they would be gone in a flash and that is with having full respect for Scotland. The majority of the English really are fed up with the SNP'S constant whining on about it and her hatred for the English.

You really need to be Scottish and have been born and bred in Scotland to fully grasp what Independence is all about.

Nicola Sturgeon is as you would expect is on our Scottish news regularly and has regularly stated that she has no hatred for the English nation.I would have thought you would have had more sense than believe everything you read in your local rag.You show me where and when she actually said she hates the English.Your making up scenarios that really don't exist Rob.

Of course if you lot had stayed south of Hadrian's wall all these hundreds of years ago none of this would be happening but no your need to invade and conquer because your bigger and stronger is really at the root of all this and still is.You just can't see how your superiority complex clouds your judgement.It can only be seen from up here,trust me.

No doubt you will come back at me with your pearls of wisdom but I've heard enough of your biased English pov.but I'm saying no more.

Still luv ya though😀😀😀😀😀😀😀😀😀

[StnCld316]

3 hours ago, Ridgerunner said:

And all the so called brilliant economists said Donald Trump would destroy the U.S. economy.

Give him time.  He's working on it.  

[Robwin]

1 hour ago, Dave 27 said:

No doubt you will come back at me with your pearls of wisdom but I've heard enough of your biased English pov.but I'm saying no more.

Still luv ya though😀😀😀😀😀😀😀😀😀

Oooohh naughty englanders eh. Not being superior at all just looking at things logically in my view but then obviously yours is different which is your perogative. Scotland's national debt is going out of control if you believe the economists so if you should lose the subsidies you get from the english parliament there would have to be severe cut backs by your parliament which could only be, initially, many if the freebies you now enjoy like free uni fees, free prescriptions,free old age care and whatever else you get.

You would have no national bank to guarantee you financially and no currency for a start, all would have to be started from scratch and then you would have to take on your share of the UK debt so all in all not a great start to being independent eh.🤔