Music that screwed the world.

[Guest Pirate]

Rather than change topic, even though it is answering legitimate posts, I’ve started another thread, plus it keeps the other one positive. I should know better by now, but I can’t let this one go.

Music has created great things, but unfortunately has a more sinister side. The article relating to the Black Power Movement of the late 1960s and the use of music for social change mentions connections with hip-hop, a tool used to corrupt an entire generation of blacks and muslims, a fact openly promoted by the radical groups themselves. Unfortunately this crap is now spreading to Australia.

For those that don’t believe, check out the Five Percent Nation, also known as Allah’s Five Percenters, who believe black people are the fathers and mothers of civilisation, white men are the devil, the Christian god is nothing more than a ghost. They promote their cause through hip-hop, promoting nothing short of anarchy. Check out a recent convert Jay Z, who made his reputation and fortune with hip-hop, publicly displaying the groups medallion around his neck, equivalent to a motor cycle gangs colors.

Personally, groups like Public Enemy didn’t get it all wrong, at least they had the smarts to line themselves up in the crosshairs. 

[Guest bulgachica]

Let it go man, nothing i post to refute your generalisations about all black and Muslim people based on a shit "musician" (Jay-Z) or some wacko Muslim sect is going to change your prejudices, so why bother?

I'll be disappointed with you if you go into full-retard mode over this but if you want to, then research both sides first, stop the sweeping generalisations and have at thee...

[Guest ww_watcher]

Without wholly disagreeing with Pirate, the Hip hop music style is just a simple platform for some of the most disgusting descriptions of appalling lifestyles. The reason some the music you are protesting is being used for this purpose is the ease at which it can be made; as a cooky cutter stamps out cookies. Canned chords and canned sound effects do not require any musicality ; only a modicum of creativity and the ability to press buttons. Prosaic music has been around a long time. Longer than Ice T or MC Hammer and his ilk. In a society where everyone wants to be "hip" they will nearly always gravitate toward the lowest common denominator and strive for mediocrity. That is why the rabble are so easily pointlessly roused.

[Buster]

I feel the same way about pop music in general. All the prior and current boy bands and pop women can go fuck themselves... people like Lady Gaga and Katy Perry. Fuck them all.

[Guest Squirrel]

Yes, Pirate utilized a fallacy of generalization; I'll let that go because it doesn't necessarily make the totality of his argument irrelevant. To think so would include several other violations of logic, and I am a tolerant poster.

However,  I'm sure we all agree that appealing to peer-group pressure which makes killing crackers and raping or pimping out bitches appear to be the "cool" thing, is not very advanced music, especially when targeted to a populace that disses education and worships violence. In fact, it's not the music; it's that the music is used as a political weapon to increase intolerance, while professing the opposite. Only some rap is used this way. Not all.

I'm a tolerant little Squirrel: but I don't much like Justin Beiber either. So, exercising my rights in a sick but still existing free market environment, I will support and pay for the music that I enjoy.

[Guest Pirate]

Let it go man, nothing i post to refute your generalisations about all black and Muslim people based on a shit "musician" (Jay-Z) or some wacko Muslim sect is going to change your prejudices, so why bother?

I'll be disappointed with you if you go into full-retard mode over this but if you want to, then research both sides first, stop the sweeping generalisations and have at thee...

To first answer your generalisation of black people, (FACT) I spent 20 years working with Australian aboriginal people, (FACT) they don’t come much blacker than in the Western desert country, (FACT) some who literally saw their first white man in the late 60s. (FACT) My wife and I lived in a black community of some 500 people, (FACT) often being the only two white people there. (FACT) I was adopted by one of the families, (FACT) going through a traditional initiation ceremony, and (FACT) some 35 years later still communicate with my alternate family. (OPINION) These are truly magnificent people, still maintaining their own traditions and culture. (OPINION) Sadly even the elders believe the next generation has been corrupted and it’s unlikely they will maintain their lifestyle for much longer. 

As for Jay Z, multi-millionaire shit musician, who has more power to influence society than your government or Prime Minister ever will, and a bigger budget. And if you don’t believe he is a front man for a bigger cause, you are living in fantasy land.

The comments about hip-hop, the connection with black and muslim radicals, they are not my opinions, they are stated facts by the groups, followers and the musicians themselves. That’s how they promote and communicate their message, how they have recruited who knows how many followers. But you already know that don’t you? I mean, you are the one that raised the topic of hip-hop in you post.

If you post comments about songs like Public Enemy - Bring the Noise (1987) or Nina Simone - I Wish I Knew (How It Would Feel to Be Free) you need to do more than just search the internet for songs that changed the world then just copy a paragraph or two. Unlike you I am familiar with Nina Simone and recognised the article immediately, the same for the publicity comments about Public Enemy, both old articles and not very original. 

Take your own advice and research topics you obviously know nothing about before you make comments.

And I know this has been asked before, but if you are so keen about promoting peace and harmony, apart from your throw away lines from b grade movies about fighting to the death and defending the barricades, what’s with the agro avatar? Intimidating or ego bolstering? At least you got rid of the dude with the toy gun, ‘cos come the war a toy gun just means you’ll be the first casualty.

[Guest bulgachica]

(FACT) One person's opinion (Jay-Z) or a small pèrcentage of people should not be taken to represent the feelings of at a guess 2 billion people.  Stop going on about a few musicians and a small percentage of Muslims!

Are you trying to say that it was hip hop then that has corrupted the Aborigines? If not then I'm not sure why you put this paragraph here. I took it tacitly  that you are against the expressive freedom and civil rights of Western black Africans, as that is the conversation we're having, generally that is shortened to just "black people".  But is it really, REALLY, mainly the influence of hip hop that has totally decimated indigenous Australian culture? Is that seriously what you're saying? Is that really where the elder points the blame for the massive unemployment, social in-cohesion, alcoholism, crime and short life span amongst his people? 30 years of hip hop?!

I totally and utterly disagree with the your opinion that Jay-Z or other shit hip-hop artists, (and let's be clear hear, your underlying message is that by governments listening to the civil rights movement and granting black people the same human rights as white people the world is in a fucked up state), can negatively influence the world as much as corrupt banking institutions, corrupt governments, warmongering states or institutionalised racisim and divisive uninformed narrow thinking.

Now, I'm not a fan of hip hop as a genre, so I'm certainly not going to sit here and defend a style of music which does have some of the most misogynistic and violent lyrics around.  I do however have a very open mind when it comes to music and consequently have an absolutely massive knowledge of all genres, hip hop is no exception.  For the sake of brevity, I'll post a couple of links here and I advise you read them. Warning: affluent black people are mentioned but don't worry, some of them do kill each other.

This is a very well known story about the manipulation of the genre and it will become apparent why the main players in it remain anonymous.  Read them. It'll probably give you more ammunition to support your argument, (as I advised you to do), it will also give you the reason why some shit hip hop artists espouse gun violence.

Sorry but it really seems like the real reason you're butthurt is that the musicians posted were non-white and that their message was about raising the status and freedom of their disadvantaged, when compared to white people, race.  We could have had a non-combative discussion about it if you hadn't started generalising and talking shit.

Your final paragraph - retard-mode is go then is it?  I had you pegged as someone who's views I didn't neccessarily agree with but could respect for laying down a coherent argument, so stop with the playground points scoring and childish assumptions, that made the other 3 look pathetic and resulted in all those previous threads being deleted.

Avatar 1: Just set up the account, was presented with a list of film stars, something else or military icons.  I choose one that looked like Solid Snake, a character from a video game.

Avatar 2: It wasn't Solid Snake, so I went on the net and found one that was him.

Reason: None of your 'kin business buddy!!! ;) But still I'll leave it there as it might offer you a juvenile point scoring life raft.

[Guest bulgachica]

Forgot the links:

http://www.businessinsider.com/former-music-exec-describes-the-scary-meeting-that-resulted-in-todays-violent-rap-music-2012-5

http://www.hiphopisread.com/2012/04/secret-meeting-that-changed-rap-music.html?m=1

[van the man]

It is good to be able to read some intelligent discussions about interesting subjects on this forum.

I have to say Hip Hop as a genre has developed into a movement of hate. It is not a black versus white thing but a hatred of everything for the sake of hatred. They sing (well talk!) about women as Hoes (I think they mean whores!). They sing about killing and shooting and maiming. The genre is essentially a protest movement but they can't work out who the enemy is!

I don't know if Muslims have infiltrated the music arena as I thought they actually think music is against the will of their god. However if they have then my god needs to get some ear muffs because for sure the music will be totally shit and devoid of melody!

I understand that race issues are a big thing in the US with the focus generally on black versus white. In the UK our race issues tend to revolve around the overall mix due to the huge amount of immigration from all nations who pour into the UK daily.

Hip Hop grew out of the Punk movement. The Punk era railed against the establishment and brought anger as opposed to protest to the world of music. This made for very exciting music that genuinely came from the streets. Hip Hop is now being manipulated by music moguls who need white Americans to buy their records even though many of the lyrics are anti white middle class.

Hip Hop (and Rap) is a genre that lives off original music that is then overlaid with a rap track beat and mostly violent words.

Oh for proper protest music about proper issues. The youth of today can't actually find anything to protest about!!

Maybe we should ban them from using their mobile phones and internet. They could then write songs to protest how they are being abused and deprived!!!!

[Guest Pirate]

Yep, you caught me out, confession time, I don’t hate all black people, only the radical, anarchy preaching, drug addicted hardliners. Might be a few white ones in there too.

While we are opening up, I have spent some time training Indonesian and East Timorese soldiers, some of whom are now friends that I still communicate with. And yes, some of them are muslims, so I also confess to not hating all muslims too. 

So, I now see that you are an armchair expert on indigenous culture in Australia and very astute too, because even though I didn’t mention it, some of the elders do blame American Negro culture including hip-hop and rap music, for some of their downfall. What you are quoting though, alcoholism, crime, in-cohesion (don’t understand that, I’m assuming you mean anti-social behavior) are all symptoms of a break-down of the culture, not the cause. The culture collapses due to a lack of control, lack of respect, public disobedience and disregard for law and order, all part of the backbone of Aboriginal or any culture, all the crap hip-hop and the like promotes. The result is chaos and anarchy, all traits displayed by Aboriginal society. Hence the elders (not elder) belief that their society is now corrupt. They now mirror the rest of society. But hey, I’ve only been living and working with Aboriginal people for about 40 years, what could I possibly know.

As for Jay-Z and his friends, I was right you are living in fantasy land. The prison angle is not new, promoted anonymously, but is only a very small part of the issue. As I said, check out the Five percent Nation, who number in the hundreds of thousands, growing daily and spreading like a plague. That’s the big issue with hip-hop. They already have the east coast of the USA renamed ready for the big day.

And again, your understanding of the topic completely lost, hip-hop has absolutely nothing to do with the civil rights movement.

Glad you explained Solid Snake, the fictional character that poses as a mercenary, or a spy, or maybe even a black ops soldier. Now I get it, he’s your alter ego. You should give him a separate log in, he’s more fun than the peace and harmony guy and non-combative discussions.

[Guest bulgachica]

Yes, some most hip hop was to do with civil rights and other social issues in the beginning.  Yes, the majority of hip hop has been bastardised by the industry itself. Yes, hip hop and music is not the cause of the ills affecting aborigines.  Yes, you are the fantasist if you persist in stating that music is the cause instead of the reaction; totally agree with Van that there are no decent popular protest songs now and I'd add that the hip hop version you are clinging on to is a bunch of people trying to effect the anger and protest of its roots but who make themselves look like dicks rapping about their bitches n hoes.

Give people equal opportunities, respect and the tools to better themselves and there wouldn't be a Five Percent Nation.  To blame music or counter-culture for a government's failings is playing right into that government's hands. Plus you do realise that you are really labouring the "I'm not racist, some of my best friends are black", card don't you?

And yes, Solid Snake is a video game character and, much like the majority of people, just because I have a working connection with that game, that doesn't mean that I go around wearing invisible camo gear or concealed under cardboard boxes ready to pop a tranquilser dart into someone's neck - it's very much like the majority of people's interaction with music in that respect. 

Also, do note that you have written some more information about your background to which I am not jumping all over to try and make disparaging assumptions about like a petulant school kid - keep on bashing the avatar, it really really hurts. <<insert could not give a flying fuck symbol>>

[Guest Pirate]

Allow me to fill the gap, least I can do.