JenniferMom

This was a brutal post but possibly the most accurate assessment I have seen. I wish them both well.

I think this is very plausible Moose. At a minimum, somewhere along the way Martina told Alberto “let’s keep this casual”.

This would be a game changer for RLC. Who’s pussy would you want to smell first off? Masha? Martina? Nelly? Holly?

Likewise a lot of good points in your post. Perhaps the term “soul mates” is getting in the way. I would ask you … do you believe there are swingers and “swinger groups”? I believe they exist although I have never partaken in that. My question is how does a married couple become swingers? They are committed to each other and may have fabulous marriages but they enjoy meeting other people and couples for the purposes of sex.

I think anal fingering is more intimate and erotic than anal fucking.

It wouldn't have to be necessarily on cam, but then we couldn't talk about it LOL. Seriously, the point is they need to be equally invested in something like this. If it is one sided, with only Martina enjoying sex outside the relationship, it makes it very difficult and starts to breed resentment, etc. This I think is Star's point. All I am saying is if Martina really loved Alberto, she would have tried to bring him into her lesbianism with a threeway. That didn't happen as far as we know. I don't think so. I think the point you are trying to make is that relationships come in many many flavors. You can still be monogamous and not be married. Yes I do think an issue we have (when trying to discuss this here) is that we all see relationships differently. I think a key element of a relationship is the idea of "commitment". That to me defines the relationship the best. Some here have tried to get us to believe that Martina and Alberto had a fairly strong commitment to each other. I never thought they did. Also, it is difficult for a lot of people, especially older and perhaps more religious people, or believers in Faith, to grasp the idea of casual sex and the idea of sex positivism, and combine that with the idea of a commitment to each other. To these people, sex defines the commitment in a sense. I don't think people with traditional values can fathom the idea that two good friends can live together and fuck and the fucking is really no more meaningful than brushing their teeth, someone that humans need to do every day. I completely agree with this. I have always said they might have started out like a lot of couples started out. Relationships DO change overtime. My frustration with some here is that during the Nelly era, several here seem to have been heavily invested in the idea that this relationship was fundamentally sound. When we all saw how one-sided this was, it left a lot of doubts.

You are falling into the same trap that others fall into. In your world, true soul mates are monogamous. In my world, you can have a true soul mate and be polyamorous, i.e. swingers. I think it is rare, and not easy to manage if you don't communicate well, and you need to have a lot of trust, etc., etc. ... but they do exist and often they are very successful. Again, with 8 billion people on the planet, I am assuming they exist, even though I don't claim to know any swingers that are soul mates. But too, this is taboo, and maybe some of the most tight couples I know, they swing on the side. Sadly they have not invited me to join them. So who knows. The problem that @Deepdave and others have is that they tried to convince us that Alberto and Martina had a uniquely open relationship and they were soul mates. But the problem they had is that the the open relationship for whatever reason was not balanced and shared equally between Martina and Alberto. In this case, it was destined to fail. OR, you assume like me, they started out as FWB fuck buddies which I believe is the most likely way to describe them. I mean, they fucked about a week ago so they can't be too pissed off at each other even though they are splitting up. Your point is valid but I just don't think we have a lot of evidence to support it. You think Alberto would not agree to a threesome because he loved Martina so much. Honestly, that sounds like a guy talking. I don't understand a man who would turn down a threesome and further if he KNEW it would help him to get the girl he loved ... why would he turn it down? I see no downside for Alberto getting into a threesome with Martina. Even if he thought "I love her and I want her but not this way, not with a threesome" ... he probably had a good idea that Martina was never going to accept him as a soul mate / life partner ... so WTF, why not have some hot threesome sex? Like I said, no downside.

This is a good point and possible explanation. She is either messing with Martina or somehow this is an attempt to be respectful of her. You do have to wonder if we will see Alberto and Juliet on RLC ... if not in this apartment perhaps in the apartment/house he is obtaining. Thoughts?

Yes of course but he wouldn't be a douchebag if all he said was "the nightvision is there so yes the people can still see but it isn't as clear or easy to see details, etc.". This is a true statement. I think everyone here would vote to watch with lights on instead of nightvision. She might interpret this as being a sufficient amount of "safety" but unless she has seen it firsthand she could be deceived a bit. Again, I don't think Alberto purposely tried to deceive her. Yes this seems right to me. We still don't know if she understands what CAN be seen in night vision and whether she is acceptable to that.

This could explain it though. She thought she had a level of protection in night vision but not so with lights on in bathroom. I don't have a sub ... but has all of the sex with Alberto been exclusively on night vision?

I actually think seeing the veins is fucking hot. Not going to lie.

Shame on you for speculating why Alberto doesn't give 100% when he fucks Martina! But your post is spot on. You say it is a male point of view but women too feel like this if their male lover has a fling. If Martina really loved Alberto and wanted him for a long-term partner in an open relationship, she had really one option that I think would have worked: Invite Alberto into a threesome with one of her lesbian/bisexual lovers. It would have been easy and of course it would have been very hot. The fact that she never ever did this tells me that she did not really fall in love with Alberto and view him as a long-term partner. Think about it ... you want to share with your "soul mate" those things that are very special to her. Martina's lesbianism is very special and important to her, there is no doubting this. But she never ever really tried to bring Alberto (who we are told is her soul mate) into her this world of hers. Having said this, of course, bringing Alberto into the Nelly fling would be problematic. Bogdan struggled with Nelly fucking Martina, he certainly is not going to accept Alberto in the mix. And if GF4 is married, we have a similar situation. But Marta? OR ... if she loves fucking women like we now say she does, why not bring home one of her lovers from the clubs and have a threesome?

Finally something fun to talk about. And it is happening IN the apartment so no rules are being broken! I have to assume she knows she is on cam. If in fact she has no clue, this is indeed sad but might even break some other rules. So let's assume she knows about the cams. The interesting point is the night vision and why she seems to suddenly be shy when taking a shower. Lest I get in trouble for speculating, what might be the reason for this? I don't see the connection between showering with clothes on and the night vision. Did she have the lights off?

Let's create the Top Five.

This is a huge question really. One really has to wonder why he doesn't go as long and as passionate with Martina. I get the argument that they have been together for 6 years and sex will drop off like that for couples. Question for the old timers: Were any of the early Alberto/Martina fuck sessions like this, i.e. going on for hours and being so passionate?

I agree with you. We should celebrate Alberto's passionate fucking. Honestly, I thought about re subbing to see it but I think I will survive without seeing it. Not being facetious at all, it is good to see something different from this apartment. Question for the audience: I suggest that the two best fucks in this apartment are Martina-Nelly and now Alberto-Juliet. Interesting that Martina-Alberto don't make it onto this list. Of course, I have heard that their early fucks were very good, but I started at the beginning of the Nelly era so I did not see them. And say what you want, when you look at a 3 year old video of one of their early sexual exploits, it just doesn't feel as exciting as seeing it live in real time. Of course, we are voyeurs. So what is everyone's thought on my take? Were there better fucks besides these two and which ones would make the hall of fame for this apartment? If this apartment is closing, let's start reminiscing now.

Yes thanks Noldus, it is a good reminder to review these. But this too is perfectly clear, quoting from the rules: "Once the tenant(s) step outside the apartment that is their own personal lives and what they do in their own personal lives outside of the apartment confines shall not be discussed in open forum boards of any apartment." This is straight from the rules. There are thousands of post that talk about what Martina does outside the apartment. But only 2 get deleted (as far as I can count). I get the issue the mods have is if they deleted everything about life outside the apartment, there would be few posts left (only the hot ones with Martina and Nelly). But it seems like this is not black and white to me.

Nice post again Berty but see my last post. I think we should welcome speculations and use them to open our minds to what may be happening. Other than this, we agree.

It’s always been my job to speculate!😁 What other job would I have. I fail to see why speculations are so frowned upon here. That’s all we have really. It’s a huge paradox that on a website where we SEE them 24x7 … we still have little insight into who they are, their thoughts, their feelings, their emotions. There are no such things as facts here, beyond what we see with our eyes. The translators are wonderful of course but we should be skeptical of them too. They are not perfect, they have their own biases, and as we have been told, Catalan is a difficult language to understand with all of its colloquialisms. I have seen a few transcripts of their conversations and while I think they represent what took place rather well, we should not accept everything in such a transcript as a fact. So yes … we should all value speculations because no one here has a monopoly on the full set of all true facts. How many times did I say that I thought @Deepdave was probably correct that this couple was rock solid? I knew he was wired into the backchannel … I was only annoyed because of the sanctimonious way he put these two on a pedestal. But a lot of things did not add up when we watched the cams so I always maintained a healthy skepticism and I speculated. Where is he now? We would all be better off if we admit we are seeing only the tip of the iceberg. Like now for example … are they moving or not? Did Alberto buy a house or not? Unless I see the contracts, I will be doubtful of everything. And I am not saying we are entitled to anything more than the tip of the iceberg we see on cam. Why isn’t the thought that they are moving out considered a “wild speculation” instead of being accepted as fact?

Thanks Berty … well done! There was a time when if you posted something like this, you would have been blasted for being a crazy speculator and you were being rude and hostile to this loving couple. But those people are nowhere to be found now.

Yes she DOES care about Alberto. It seems people think that FWB relationships are just hookups. I don’t think this at all. There has to be a connection of sorts. The FWB couple are close and they CARE about each other. They are FRIENDS. They have sex for sex sakes … it’s just sex. Best example of FWB I can point to here is that big black American military guy that comes to fuck Masha 3-4 times per year. They have a wonderful weekend when he’s in town. It appears they are close to each other as friends. But when they get together, they love to fuck.

Yes Star, I agree she does not seem content inside. She has a lot going on and she’s at a point in her life where the future is maybe little uncertain: her dad, her job, her studies, a girlfriend we understand to be married who may be into Martina more than Martina would like right now. She is clearly a Type A personality that is very deliberate when it comes to the important things in life. But I feel confident that she is happy with her decision to leave Alberto. I think this causes her stress because she DOES care for him … but more as a brother than a lover. It is possible too that she is questioning all of this … she thinks she may be more of a lesbian … the sex is incredible … but maybe it’s better for her future to have crappy sex with a great man like Alberto. These thoughts can cause stress and it will show on her as we have seen.

Good post, lot to unpack. I like some of your points but you don’t seem to show how Alberto has a say in this relationship. I said Martina makes all the rules. You can’t say by Alberto accepting her bisexuality, he is also making the rules too. Show me one example where Alberto laid down the law and Martina complied. Yes agree on what Juliet is for now … a fling. Where we really disagree is whether or not Martina is unhappy. I don’t think she is. She never saw a future with Alberto and I think she is happy he is moving on. She might not like cleaning up the cum stains tho. It’s OK to have doubts and see this through different lens. I much prefer posts like yours that make points with logic and evidence that is not black and white. This is much preferred than some here (one notable poster who has gone dark on us) who tells us with no uncertain doubt that this couple is rock solid and will be together for a long long time — because they talk to the translators who know everything. That gets old fast. We only see what we see … we may never know the full truth about any of this. That’s ok too.

I came back to this 3 times. I tried to resist. I lost. 😞 You said this in jest but it’s an excellent point. Martina makes the rules in this relationship. Does any disagree with this? Now for the first time, Alberto has moved on with his crush on Martina and he actually has some leverage now. It’s fascinating to me how human behavior works. For years and months I think Alberto was trapped and frozen by his passion for Martina. When he finally decides to move on, shit happens fast … just a few months and he’s fucking on cam with the vigor of a 16 year old boy.

Second prize is Serafima! 😂