JenniferMom

Of course my good friend. Fact is we don’t know. I do think these girls are not into strap ons tho. I could be wrong.

If you don't think they are being sexually intimate when they wander away from the cams ... then what explains this when before when they were being intimate, we would quite often seem them together on-cam being friends (not sexually). Another explanation that I keep thinking is plausible is that they like to fuck with us. I probably would do the same if I was these two.

I think your theory that they are now just good friends makes some sense; however, I would support it even more if they displayed their friendship on cam. Remember not too long ago, Nelly visited Martina and they cuddled and watched TV in the guest room. Then there were times when they got together to paint and also for Nelly to give Martina a facial. But now when they are together "being good friends", it always seems to be off-cam. Either going on vacation together, or taking a walk in the woods, or just going to the "garage" or the secret places that are off-cam ... "so they can talk". Admittedly, they are seen together on-cam with others around; however, rarely do we see them two together talking, watching TV, or just being good friends. If these two are tired of all the speculations that the affair is continuing ... the best thing they could do is be close friends on cam ... to show their viewers indeed the lust is over and they just now value their friendship.

Thanks VJ. We don’t disagree that much. But on some things, perhaps we do. I don’t think many people instigate. But maybe. I don’t see that the translators have covered her off-cam activities in such a watertight manner as you allude. We do hear often that she is out with her school friends … or she is visiting her family … or she went to Croatia with her gay friends. These contributions by the translators are invaluable and I believe these explanations to be accurate, ie I don’t have any reason to doubt them. But to imply that she is totally true to Alberto when she is out all night is a step too far for me. I should be able to be skeptical and not have this viewed as I don’t agree or respect the translators. Anyway thanks for calling me out; I appreciate the feedback.

VJ, I hear what you are saying but it's not that easy to characterize all of this. While I think there may be a few here who might fabricate things out of thin air, I believe by and large people see and hear things and derive conclusions using their own intelligence and experience to explain what is happening. Trust me, it kills me to say this, as I am not one who says "everyone deserves a voice". Because honestly, there are a lot of stupid people in the world and NO they don't necessarily deserve a voice. But I don't see this with most of the people here. Everyone sees this couple and forms judgements based on their own thoughts on how they think a couple should behave together. It's the richness and diversity of thought on this which makes the conversation interesting. Why there is not more tolerance of these views is fascinating to me. It's surprising to me that I am not a very tolerant person and yet I am advocating for more tolerance here. Take GF2, who I know many of you think is totally crazy. But really, she may be the one person who can best relate to a free spirit individual like Martina. Maybe she tries to provoke us but if you sift through all her crazyness, she makes a lot of good points. Everyone wants to dismiss her but yet no on has been able to put up ANY evidence as to what Martina does all night except the basic "she just likes to have fun and Alberto is ok with that". I'm sorry, while that may be the most likely explanation, I am not buying it just yet and I encourage everyone to just listen and withhold judgement until we know more. GF2 provides an alternative explanation. This is an amazingly interesting couple. But the fact remains, for perhaps over 99% of the couples on this planet, if one party is spending all night away from home ... virtually every week ... that is a sign of cheating and an unhealthy relationship ... OR a sign of a less-than committed relationship. Anyway, what I see is people with their own experiences and judgement making speculations about this couple based on their own paradigms and mental models. Berty described recently a series of events that did not put Martina in a good light. I've taken a look at some of this footage as a result of a good friend who shares, and I will admit it does not look as nefarious as Berty seemed to imply. But that doesn't make him wrong. He saw what he saw. Unless he is purposely trying to deceive us, I think we should give him the benefit of the doubt. Rather than trash him, I would much rather someone come back with a post along the lines of "sorry Berty, I just went back and watched what you watched and I don't see it that way". This is how we can learn together.

John: What is the purposes of these forums if we are not supposed to comment on what we see?

It wasn't as sarcastic as much as you think. You really look down on all of us as you are Mr. Know It All and we should all just STFU and accept your POV on what is going on with this couple. Excuse me if I don't accept this. Again you tend to argue against the false strawman -- something which no one believes. No one is arguing they are going to be stuck in RLC for life. No one. You spray a lot of FACTS at us but none of these address the curious behaviors that are observed and raised by others on the forum. Some of these facts are like saying "FACT - They live in Barcelona". Yes of course. Thanks for the list of obvious facts. Where is your proof of this so-called FACT. I am not aware that RLC shares site usage data. This statement is almost funny as there are many posts over the last several months about how this apartment has become rather boring and predictable. But in fact, you may be on to something, as the only thing that makes this apartment EXCITING TO VIEWERS is to watch their behaviors to figure out what is going on with them. For example, WHO does she talk to all night? I know a lot of people are watching these moments very carefully. I will assume you are referring to us collectively as I do not believe I have called Martina anything derogatory. If I have called her a puta it has been in the context that she has called herself a puta. I have been more harsh of Alberto, admittedly. Of course they have feelings and of course they understand what is meant by what we say here. I believe more than ever that somehow you are acting on their behalf.

Thank you King Dave.

I know I said I was done. But then I read this. This is a really important contribution. Thanks Berty. Now unless Berty is a complete bullshit artist and making all of this up (which should be something that could be shown), I think this is a very important observation. Yet it seems to never get any serious consideration. Instead people will call Berty a Martina hater rather than help explain why an observation like this is not what we think it is. Related, some have suggested if you don't subscribe you are not entitled to an opinion here. I disagree. A subscription allows someone to watch carefully and document these observations. That takes a lot of time. The subscription doesn't do this automagically. But if Berty and others take the time to document and share these observations, why do we seem to discount them? Some might think "well it's only one guy Bert) ... but heck, when it comes to the translators, there are only two of them and we are expected to believe them above all others. My point is that some of the serious subscribers who spend a lot of time looking for these detailed observations, they deserve as much credibility as the translators and others who claim to be "in the know".

Last post for today. Promise. Dalbert I understand your point. There is a lot of repetition and I am guilty of contributing to that. But I do think with each repetition we see things a bit differently, perhaps a nuance here or there, and overall, our collective understanding as well as our individual views, change over time. I am much more open to the idea that this is just a really cool couple that has an open relationship -- than I used to be in "my early days" in the heat of the Nelly fling. Plus people come and go and fade in and out ... which is bound to require repetition to keep the group on the same page. Yes it can be frustrating to a veteran like you. As for your comment on posting bullshit ... I won't argue against that, it would be pointless. But I do think very much so that men are more black and white and women are more nuanced. It's just the way it is. I know we drive you nuts. That is not going to ever change I don't think. It's how men and women are wired.

I admire your simple posts that never require rebuttal. Thank you for being Noldus.

It is responses like this that makes me believe you have some sort of connection to Martina/Alberto or some ulterior motive for protecting them at all costs. I want these two to be together and I wish them them the absolute best. Really I do. Obviously they've known each other for a long time and are very close. But all the things that get brought up here are serious red flags. Yes some of these red flags might be explainable because older folks don't quite understand how a heterosexual monogamous relationship can succeed with one partner being bisexual ... but please trust me ... Martina and Alberto don't quite know how to make this successful either. When we do get information on their debates, serious discussions, arguments, you can see red flags all over the place. And as I have said since day 1 ... when going out to have fun vs staying with her man ... she picks going out 8 out of 10 times. So again, this may just be "type type of couple they are" as you say. But the degree of vociferousness in which you defend them is almost comical at this point.

I can't emphasize enough the importance of this observation. Of course maybe these two are committed to each other like DeepDave says and all will live happily ever after. But I've made this same point before and I should have referenced the frog. Humans (all creatures actually) can tolerate a lot ... until they can't tolerate it anymore.

I never thought you had drifted that far away! It's when you say things like this I think you lose credibility. How do YOU KNOW Alberto is her true love? You don't think close friends cuddle while watching TV? What do all the girls in all the other apartments do all the time ... cuddle ... often naked ... is that TRUE LOVE? As DD has mentioned, the translators have actually painted a not-so-rosy picture of their relationship at times.

I love a lot of your thoughts Darkman, but you lose me here calling them psychopaths. You actually contradict yourself because earlier you say they are 20-somethings. I guess the older folks here think some 20-somethings are psycho ... but this is not appropriate I don't think. Martina is a young girl out to have fun. I don't think she is psychopathic at all. I have said I don't think there is a lot of hate here for this couple (as some suggest) but yes if we are saying things like this, then maybe there is a bit of hatred. I don't think you hate this couple though.

You've come back with a much improved and better reasoned response. This is the DD I remember! So yes you make a good point, why go out looking for sex if Alberto is satisfying her? But we KNOW she did this at least once with Nelly. Why does everyone think it's so impossible to think she might be doing it again? I will agree that if she is hooking up she is likely hooking up with a girl. But the other aspect of whether Alberto is satisfying her -- perhaps it doesn't matter if this is simply a FWB arrangement. Again and again I will admit that I think DeepDave and you and others are more likely correct that these two intend to be together for the long term. But we should not discount other ideas at this point. Thank you for reminding us that emnv and omedo have shared often that Martina is not a saint. This seems to have been lost as of late. Your last sentence (bolded) is exactly what I have believed in, i.e. they will always be special to each other. I think some here think FWB relationships are like escort services or one night stands. No a good FWB has to start with two people who are very close to each other and great friends. Think Masha and Sam perhaps. Why is it so crazy to think Martina and Alberto are similar to Masha and Sam?

Apologies Dark. So I made a rather flippant statement which is not often usual for me and it comes back to bite me. Please know I only refer to her as a "puta" because it has been documented that she has self-described herself that way. But your points are well taken.

It's sad to see my good friend responding in knee-jerk fashion to defend our dear Valencian puta. And resorting to similar rhetorical techniques to try to prove your point. Let's stipulate that Martina is in fact satisfying Alberto for the sake of argument. You have chosen to argue the one thing that cannot be easily proven. Why not address the key behavior that is evident and visible to all, the behavior that causes some of us to question the health of their relationship ... that being her desires and urges to leave the apartment at night and often not return for many hours. For this, the "Martina is a saint crowd" has no response ... except that she is a "fun girl that likes to dance'. OK The issue of whether she satisfies Alberto is not relevant in my opinion.

This is another interesting observation that I see and digest for the first time. Can anyone validate this? It would explain perhaps why Martina does not visit the other apartments as much as the others do. It would also explain why sex with Nelly as moved off-cam. In fact it would explain Bogdan’s disapproval more compellingly. He is not so opposed to Nelly having a bisexual fling but as management he does not want to do it on cam. Lots of interesting aspects if this is true, ie RLC wants to keep the Russians and non-Russians a bit isolated.

Help me understand Pete. What did I guess specifically that you disapprove of? Are you saying that Berty did not see Martina on some sort of dating app? Are you objecting to me commenting on this at all? Do you think I am trying to turn an observation like this into something nefarious?

This is the kind of observation that is surprising to see not discussed more. If she is working through an app like Tinder, doesn’t this tell us something? So unless this is a complete fabrication by Berty … and nothing suggests that it is … I commend Berty for observing this and reporting on it here.

Thank you Oh Great One for sharing this with all of us. We can all sleep tonight knowing Martina and Alberto are together having fun and being romantic. It would be even more wonderful if we could be enlightened on what happened the other day when Martina and Nelly were MIA or what M&A discussed in any one of several serious discussions that have been reported here recently.

Agree the dad comment/analogy missed the mark and was inappropriate. Yelt mostly comments on things that are common knowledge and accepted facts. Her bisexuality. Her use of alcohol. His trigger finger is sometimes too quick but he responds to things that are not outlandish. He is more concerned for these two I think than you are who tends to whitewash some of this and pretend it doesn’t exist (e.g. the all-nighters). I think I have a good relationship with the translators and in fact awhile back one did share a transcript with me. It did not paint a rosy picture between these two. I find this practice of sharing information privately to be troubling but haven’t done much about it because despite what you think I do value the translators and don’t want to jeopardize my relationship, as tentative as it may be. You suggest to Yelt and I to get a sub and watch more … but there have been some very careful viewers of late that have documented timelines of Martina’s comings and going’s and you dismiss all of this. One of the most dedicated watchers ever came to the conclusion that Martina was an escort … and he was trashed mercilessly. I tried for a long time to hear and see what he saw and heard and I could not confirm this. It pains me to this day because I know he believed it. And while I could not corroborate this, there is ample circumstantial evidence (on cam) that this might be a valid conclusion (e.g. all-nighters, late phone calls, attire, etc.). Again, to be very clear, I do not think Martina is an escort but my point is when someone watches carefully as you wish Yelt would do, those people get trashed here.

The reason you see Yelt's comments as negative is because you are programmed to denounce ANYTHING that casts a shadow on the beloved Martina. I reread his post and yes there are a ton of hypotheticals in there but nothing that is out-and-out negative like you suggesting Yelt needs to see a psychiatrist. Yelt wonders if she is contemplating her bisexuality. He wonders if her drug and alcohol abuse is a concern. Clearly Yelt seems concerned about Martina which is actually touching. But these are pretty much facts in terms of what we know about Martina. In your world we can't talk about these things because it distracts from your narrative that this is just a smart girl focused on her career and her love for Alberto that likes to party a bit at night but mostly likes to have fun playing with Legos. Sorry if I and others here don't buy it. YET (YET not YELT!) I am still willing to concede that these two will be ok over time. But jeeze let it play out rather than defend her as if you were her dad. Wait! What?

You are so protective of your narrative that you are willing to trash the rather long-winded but soft-spoken Yelt. I don’t think any of us have been so cruel to the translators as you have been just now with Yelt.