1962Starfire

Spot on Jen but I would reverse it. I think the sadness comes more from the life changing move for Martina. It seems it was more difficult for her than what she thought, leaving the comfort and security of the old apt. for so many years with Alberto and dealing with the problems of the new place, on her own. If GF4 has no interest in being before the cameras, the move should be a happy one for the two of them since the new place is, apparently, camera free.

Not sure that has been established as fact. It's been a long standing speculation by many but due to the mystery of GF4's status, no one really knows for sure. My guess is still FWB and that's all.

A distinct possibility! Another possible scenario: perhaps GF4 is married and has children. Unless she is willing to give that all up for Martina, which is highly doubtful, it would seem their relationship was just FWB from the start.

Key word in my post is "recent". The Nelly affair is past history that Alberto knew about and apparently accepted. Martina is building a new life for herself. She had some setbacks with the move, which is normal for any move to a new place. Her life is anything but "falling apart". Alberto is the one who can't get out of his own way in moving on with his life. but I hope he leaves his bumpy road behind him soon. I wish them both the best.

I have to disagree. His recent "shitty life" was of his own making. His grandiose idea of buying a house with no money, depending on Martina for loans and then bad-mouthing her behind her back and then making apartment life miserable for all involved by bringing his bit of fluff home. Down the road, I believe Alberto will regret his actions and begin to miss Martina in his life.

I have to disagree. His recent "shitty life" was of his own making. His grandiose idea of buying a house with no money, depending on Martina for loans and then bad-mouthing her behind her back and then making apartment life miserable for all involved by bringing his bit of fluff home. Down the road, I believe Alberto will regret his actions begin to miss Martina in his life.

Is it considered cheating if your partner knows what is going on and accepts it (at least outwardly) as Alberto did?

Purely my own opinion, but I hope in some of Alberto's rare contemplative moments alone on his balcony, he comes to realize what a douchebag he's been during this whole parting process with Martina. Unless she told him otherwise, he offered no help to her in any way with the move. He upset her as often as possible in the apt. adding to her stress. When the three of them were at the apt., he would usually only cook dinner for himself and his Goth friend. I believe he has no feelings at all for this new girl and she was only used to vindictively grind salt into the wound and add even more stress to Martina's life. Even though Martina will probably be back for her remaining things, the finality of her leaving felt palpable this evening when she left with Taco and Alberto never even gave her a goodbye hug. I think, after all the bitter history of the past year or so, M&A still have a special feeling for each other, some sort bond that can't be broken because of their long history together. In my mind, perhaps there could have been a happier life for these two if Alberto hadn't been such a dick, apparently mostly about money in the end. The other problems would have worked themselves out eventually as they do with any couple that care about each other. So, yes, in his quiet moments, I hope Alberto might feel some regret that he let a wonderful woman get away.

How else did Martina "call Alberto's bluff on leaving", as you believe, if she didn't lie to him about moving to a new apartment?? Was she also lying to everyone else she spoke to about the new apartment that supposedly doesn't exist, in your opinion? Just logic, Laddie. Just logic.

Yes, she was just one of many to come and go like so many dull drops in the ocean. But every so often, a drop comes along that sparkles in the water. Martina has that rare sparkle of beauty, charm and warmth that we all loved about her for so long. She will be missed.

It also must be terribly difficult for her, no matter how much she wants out, to see someone else, already there, taking her place and using all the things in the apt. that she and Alberto used for years. They are probably mostly happy memories she will take with her and sustain her until she makes new ones.

Martina has discussed her new place multiple times with people both on the phone and in person. The other evening she had a long conversation with Nelly and Bogdan about it and showed them photos. She has no reason to lie to them. Plus she has slowly been moving her things out of the apt. Pay attention, Laddie, or you'll get a failing grade! 😂😂😂

Has it been established that Martina had any plans at all with GF4? I think it was more snowballing speculation than fact. From past postings about GF4, by those evidently that know, she is not in a position to make any plans with anyone at all. Also, Martina has admitted she wants her freedom and not be tied down to anyone right now. So it seems the status quo will remain as it is between the two of them.

I completely agree. Feelings aside, why make the split even harder unless some outside factor is holding things up. My guess is the delay is with her new place.....dog restrictions?......furniture problems?.....old tenant isn't completely out?......landlord repairing something? Could be anything. Martina and Alberto know but just haven't mentioned what it is.

Don't worry, Jen, no loss. I wouldn't even qualify this as speculation. More in the delusional category. 😄😄😄

Just saw the replays of what occurred when Martina came back to the apt. tonight. It looked like she was upset about some problem with her new place, maybe with the furniture? She was close to tears at that point. All she needed was a hug and some understanding. So, of course, Alberto started acting like a total, passive-aggressive dick and laid into her about every little thing he could think of, from filling the water bottle to money, until she was in tears. It seemed like he wanted to punish her and show off to the Goth Girl who just sat there like a lump of crap on a log. I think he was trying to blame Martina for most of his problems. It was inexcusable the way he treated her. Martina needs to get out of there, get on with her new life and leave Alberto to his fate.

I agree. I somehow suspect Martina is not as financially stressed as many think.

Yes. Martina was the reason that I subsc. in the first place. Even though I don't understand the language, it was just a joy to see her and Alberto interact (in better times) and watch her personality and charm come through to us viewers. I will miss her when she leaves as I would miss an old friend who has gone away.

From what I've seen today, without Martina, this apt. is going to be deader than a goldfish floating on top of a fishtank.

Yes. The atmosphere between M&A has been very strained since that argument which was about money, I think. Martina would have probably moved then but it's possible the delay may be due to getting her new place ready......painting, furniture delivery, etc. I believe Martina did mention something about this the other day when she was making small talk to the Goth Girl. We have no way of knowing when the former tenant moved out for her to do all this. Also possible are RLC contract agreements needing to be met, as some have said. We just don't know and can only speculate, as usual. But in a way, it turns out the whole mess is "real life" in the same way that things sometimes happen to most of us that are unforeseen.

Never heard you "male-bash", Jen, but feel free! We need it sometimes to keep us grounded.....LOL I think it's very possible for Martina to be both. Yes, she is intelligent, bright and ambitious. But at the same time, I believe she is quite confused about her emotions. As we have discussed, I think she is very mixed up about her sexual feelings, esp. if she is only experimenting with women. Also, since she relied so much in the past on Alberto for guidance with things, she may be worried what will happen when she is alone and without that. I get the feeling she knows she needs someone like that in her life for a sense of stability. Plus her family problems added to the mix all take it's toll emotionally and can make the most intelligent person feel confused at times. Bottom line is that she doesn't seem very happy right now. Even though she made the choice for the changes that are happening, it's still normal to have doubts.......and feel lost.

Maybe "accept" was the wrong word to use, Jen. Alberto probably never mentally "accepted" Martina's lesbian episodes. What I should have said was maybe "tolerated" or "ignored" or something similar. I think he was fearful that he was going to lose her, at that point, so he made a deal with the devil (with himself) to do anything to keep together......maybe thinking it was going to pass. Unfortunately, it didn't work out in the long run. I do remember, years back, some of those fucking sessions between the two of them were just that.....fucking. Alberto wasn't the most thoughtful or romantic lover sometimes but there were times that Martina seemed satisfied. I agree with you that Martina is probably bisexual. If the right guy came along, down the road, I believe she'd fuck his brains out...LOL Also, I've thought all along that Martina's lesbian adventures may just be sexual experimentation, as young people are apt to try. It may be something that phases out in the future and, as you said, she'll settle down with a guy she's crazy about. My guess is he'll be similar to Alberto in personality, giving her guidance and stability which she seems to seek and had in happier years with him. As both of us and many others have said, M&A will most likely stay friends after their roads get less bumpy. They are a part of each other's history and that's difficult to throw away. And as Tom Hanks said in "Castaway"........"Who knows what the tide will bring in?" One day in the future, Martina may visit Alberto at his little house somewhere in Catalonia and never leave. 🏡👫

Agree. It seems to me Alberto is the one carrying the grudge with his passive-aggressive behavior at times with Martina. And apparently she is preparing her new apt./rooms with not an offer of help from him that I could see.

I've been watching this apt. off and on for a few months. Does anyone find it interesting that you can never hear what anyone is saying? Always music in the background masking voices, low speaking or balcony conversations. WTF? Are they afraid of translators?

I agree. When he's alone without the giggling Goths, will his thoughts be of the happy times with Martina and wonder, "What the hell happened??" Maybe Martina might be thinking the same, down the road. Whittier once wrote, "For all sad words of tongue or pen, the saddest are these: It might have been."