European take on the Syrian crisis?

[Ozi]

Well, I take it non of you read the report then. I was genuinely interested in any of your thoughts as all of the posts following it are exactly the issue that it deals with.

Now, I live in Europe. I have spent years living in 3 notable European countries, the UK, Spain and Sweden and I have travelled extensively around my continent. I see no Islamisation of Europe nor have I read any credible studies predicting that is Europe's future. I'm really not sure where you get your information from. You can post as many badly produced videos you want, until you point to some hard facts I won't be commenting on the laughable notion of the Islamisation of Europe! Don't forget, I don't need to prove to you that Europe is not becoming Islamified, you need to back up this mental notion before I'll dignify it with a reply.

Really, you should read that report if you want to be taken seriously.

Why do I have to read that report to be taken seriously?

I did take particular note of one critical line:

                          © Parliamentary copyright 2007    prepared 30 March 2007

The report is 8 years old, it's out of date, it doesn't include current data, current trends, current issues.

I can find many, many places to live in Australia where muslims are not an issue. I have no doubt I could find many, many places in European countries where muslims are not an issue. YET. That doesn't mean that there isn't a problem.

The Telegraph 8 Aug 2009:

Britain and the rest of the European Union are ignoring a demographic time bomb: a recent rush into the EU by migrants, including millions of Muslims, will change the continent beyond recognition over the next two decades, and almost no policy-makers are talking about it.

The numbers are startling. Only 3.2 per cent of Spain's population was foreign-born in 1998. In 2007 it was 13.4 per cent. Europe's Muslim population has more than doubled in the past 30 years and will have doubled again by 2015. In Brussels, the top seven baby boys' names recently were Mohamed, Adam, Rayan, Ayoub, Mehdi, Amine and Hamza.

Europe's low white birth rate, coupled with faster multiplying migrants, will change fundamentally what we take to mean by European culture and society. The altered population mix has far-reaching implications for education, housing, welfare, labour, the arts and everything in between. It could have a critical impact on foreign policy: a study was submitted to the US Air Force on how America's relationship with Europe might evolve. Yet EU officials admit that these issues are not receiving the attention they deserve.

---------THAT WAS SIX YEARS AGO, BUT DON'T TELL ME, THE TELEGRAPH IS A RIGHT WING PROPANDA TABLOID AS WELL.

YOU CAN READ ALL THE REPORTS YOU LIKE, FOR EVERYONE THAT'S SUPPORTING YOUR ARGUMENT, THERE'S ANOTHER ONE TO DISPUTE IT.

THE WEATHER REPORT SAYS FINE AND WARM WITH CLEAR BLUE SKIES, BUT LOOK OUT THE WINDOW IT'S PISSING DOWN WITH RAIN. SO WHICH IS RIGHT?

MY STREET, MY SUBURB, MY CITY, MY COUNTRY, MY WAY OF LIFE HAS BEEN CHANGED AND IMPACTED BY ISLAM, MUSLIMS AND FUCKING REFUGEES.

I CAN'T BUY MEAT AT MY LOCAL BUTCHER ANYMORE, BECAUSE IT NOW ONLY CATERS FOR HALAL APPROVED PRODUCTS SO WON'T SELL PORK.

MY LOCAL SHOPPING CENTRE DOESN'T PROMOTE CHRISTMAS ANYMORE BECAUSE IT'S DEEMED OFFENSIVE AND PROVOCATIVE.

MY GRANDDAUGHTER'S KINDERGARTEN DIDN'T CELEBRATE EASTER THIS YEAR BECAUSE ONE CHILD BELONGS TO A MUSLIM FAMILY AND THEY DIDN'T WANT TO OFFEND THEM.

MY LOCAL COUNCIL NO LONGER STARTS THEIR MEETINGS WITH THE LORD'S PRAYER, EVEN THOUGH ALL ARE ANGLO SAXON HERITAGE BUT ARE SCARED TO OFFEND OUR LOCAL MUSLIMS.

IN SYDNEY RECENTLY I WAS REFUSED SERVICE BY SIX TAXIS, ALL LEBANESE DRIVERS, BECAUSE THEY WOULDN'T TAKE ME OUTSIDE THE CONFINES OF THEIR OWN SUBURBS.

SO PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE SHOW ME A REPORT THAT STATES THAT IS'NT ACTUALLY HAPPENING. PLEASE SHOW ME A REPORT THAT STATES IT'S ALL JUST A DREAM.

OR MAYBE I WILL SHOW YOU HUNDREDS, THOUSANDS OF SIMILAR SITUATIONS RIGHT ACROSS AUSTRALIA AND EUROPE.

You can quote all the fucking reports you want, walk around with your fucking blinkers on, but none of that changes what is actually happening.

[Maturin]

It was written then yes, which is exactly why it's contents are more relevant today, as it was written before the Arab revolutions and focused on the comparatively, to recent numbers, insignificant numbers of refugees at that time.

I'm not going to read, let alone reply, to anything in block capitals. The mismanagement of refugees under a disgraced and recently booted out, joke of an Australian Prime Minister is not something in the scope of the OP. I would suggest starting your own thread on that as it clearly bothers you so much.

[Ozi]

It was written then yes, which is exactly why it's contents are more relevant today, as it was written before the Arab revolutions and focused on the comparatively, to recent numbers, insignificant numbers of refugees at that time.

I'm not going to read, let alone reply, to anything in block capitals. The mismanagement of refugees under a disgraced and recently booted out, joke of an Australian Prime Minister is not something in the scope of the OP. I would suggest starting your own thread on that as it clearly bothers you so much.

And I would suggest you pull your head out of your arse and wash all the shit out of your eyes, ears and mouth.

[Maturin]

And I would suggest you pull your head out of your arse and wash all the shit out of your eyes, ears and mouth.

And I would respond that it is pointless trying to bring me down to responding at the above level. Been there, done that with people who are a lot stupider than yourself. I expected more quality from you to be honest. If you've nothing to add that's sensible and pertinent to this thread, then I'm not sure why you're responding. Prove me wrong on anything I've stated, prove the position you've taken is genuine or take comments like that over to the flame wars section - I'll ignore you there, however, unless it's really really good.

[Ozi]

And I would respond that it is pointless trying to bring me down to responding at the above level. Been there, done that with people who are a lot stupider than yourself. I expected more quality from you to be honest. If you've nothing to add that's sensible and pertinent to this thread, then I'm not sure why you're responding. Prove me wrong on anything I've stated, prove the position you've taken is genuine or take comments like that over to the flame wars section - I'll ignore you there, however, unless it's really really good.

The Telegraph 8 Aug 2009:

Britain and the rest of the European Union are ignoring a demographic time bomb: a recent rush into the EU by migrants, including millions of Muslims, will change the continent beyond recognition over the next two decades, and almost no policy-makers are talking about it.

The numbers are startling. Only 3.2 per cent of Spain's population was foreign-born in 1998. In 2007 it was 13.4 per cent. Europe's Muslim population has more than doubled in the past 30 years and will have doubled again by 2015. In Brussels, the top seven baby boys' names recently were Mohamed, Adam, Rayan, Ayoub, Mehdi, Amine and Hamza.

Europe's low white birth rate, coupled with faster multiplying migrants, will change fundamentally what we take to mean by European culture and society. The altered population mix has far-reaching implications for education, housing, welfare, labour, the arts and everything in between. It could have a critical impact on foreign policy: a study was submitted to the US Air Force on how America's relationship with Europe might evolve. Yet EU officials admit that these issues are not receiving the attention they deserve.

---------That was six years ago, but don't tell me, the Telegraph is a right wing propaganda tabloid as well.

You can read all the reports all the reports you like, for everyone that's supporting your argument, there's another one to dispute it.

The weather report says fine and warm with clear blue skies, but look out the window and it's pissing down with rain. So which is right?

my street, my suburb, my city, my country, my way of life has been changed and impacted by islam, muslims and fucking refugees.

i can't buy meat at my local butcher anymore, because it now only caters for halal approved products so won't sell pork.

my local shopping centre doesn't promote christmas anymore because it's deemed offensive and provocative.

my granddaughter's kindergarten didn't celebrate easter this year because one child belongs to a muslim family and they didn't want to offend them.

my local council no longer starts their meetings with the lord's prayer, even though all are anglo saxon heritage but are scared to offend our local muslims.

in sydney recently i was refused service by six taxis, all lebanese drivers, because they wouldn't take me out-side the confines of their own suburbs.

so please, please, please show me a report that states that is'nt actually happening. please show me a report that states it's all just a dream.

or maybe i will show you hundreds, thousands of similar situations right across australia and europe.

you can quote all the fucking reports you want, walk around with your fucking blinkers on, but none of that changes what is actually happening.

There, all lower case.

[Maturin]

You've said that you are not interested in reading reports, facts or figures, that you'd rather take the evidence of merely what you see before you, of which I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and not question, as indicative of the whole world, particularly Europe.

Just as in the Geneva Convention contention, that doesn't really motivate me to to put in the effort to prove that Europe is not a fanatical Muslim dominated hell-hole.  Just as I knew that fact about the GC is correct, I live in Europe and know what you are saying is incorrect. You are the one making these claims, which has led to my reply that they are ridiculous. The onus of proof is on you, that is obvious. I'm not going to research every fantastical claim you make for you. Stop shifting the burden of proof to make me do your work for you.  I can't refute anything you say about your personal experiences in a butcher's shop and all the rest - if I knew where you lived etc then I'm pretty sure it would become clear that you're not telling the whole story - I'm not asking you to give that information obviously, for the purposes of this "debate" I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.

This is wholly different from me sharing my personal experience of what I know from my travels around the continent as a European citizen.  There are Muslim suburbs in areas of most countries in Europe, just as there are various China Towns, Jewish Quarters and Latin Districts. Maybe I've missed the Muslim dominated hell holes that are or are about to unleash hell, Europe is too large for one person to visit everywhere I'll give you that, but if the problem as endemic as you screech then I'd be surprised to have missed them if what you are saying is true.  Thing is though, it's not true is it?  You have a clear opportunity to prove me wrong here, you are not taking it because you can't.

If you are going to post spun news pictures of race riots and the like in an effort to "prove" that Europe has new Muslim masters, then show me the courtesy that I'm showing you through even responding to you after the above, by giving me the background so I can look up the actual information of each picture and show you where you've made an error.  A picture of an Arabic person having a fight with a Caucasian person does not prove that all of Europe is about to fall under the rule of Mohammed - you know that right?

[Ozi]

You've said that you are not interested in reading reports, facts or figures, that you'd rather take the evidence of merely what you see before you, of which I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and not question, as indicative of the whole world, particularly Europe.

Just as in the Geneva Convention contention, that doesn't really motivate me to to put in the effort to prove that Europe is not a fanatical Muslim dominated hell-hole.  Just as I knew that fact about the GC is correct, I live in Europe and know what you are saying is incorrect. You are the one making these claims, which has led to my reply that they are ridiculous. The onus of proof is on you, that is obvious. I'm not going to research every fantastical claim you make for you. Stop shifting the burden of proof to make me do your work for you.  I can't refute anything you say about your personal experiences in a butcher's shop and all the rest - if I knew where you lived etc then I'm pretty sure it would become clear that you're not telling the whole story - I'm not asking you to give that information obviously, for the purposes of this "debate" I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.

This is wholly different from me sharing my personal experience of what I know from my travels around the continent as a European citizen.  There are Muslim suburbs in areas of most countries in Europe, just as there are various China Towns, Jewish Quarters and Latin Districts. Maybe I've missed the Muslim dominated hell holes that are or are about to unleash hell, Europe is too large for one person to visit everywhere I'll give you that, but if the problem as endemic as you screech then I'd be surprised to have missed them if what you are saying is true.  Thing is though, it's not true is it?  You have a clear opportunity to prove me wrong here, you are not taking it because you can't.

If you are going to post spun news pictures of race riots and the like in an effort to "prove" that Europe has new Muslim masters, then show me the courtesy that I'm showing you through even responding to you after the above, by giving me the background so I can look up the actual information of each picture and show you where you've made an error.  A picture of an Arabic person having a fight with a Caucasian person does not prove that all of Europe is about to fall under the rule of Mohammed - you know that right?

So what do you want, a picture of my local butcher shop before it was purchased by a muslim and became halal?

A photograph of the taxi rank with all the Lebanese drivers?

My lifestyle has changed, show me the facts that prove I am wrong?

If you do any reading or research you would have read numerous articles of restrictions and limitations placed on various groups and societies because the fear of offending minority muslim groups. If you claim not to, there are only two options, you are stupid or you are a liar. Your choice.

.................................so I can look up the actual information of each picture and show you where you've made an error.

Right, so you are either stupid, or a liar and arrogant.

[Maturin]

So what do you want, a picture of my local butcher shop before it was purchased by a muslim and became halal?

A photograph of the taxi rank with all the Lebanese drivers?

My lifestyle has changed, show me the facts that prove I am wrong?

If you do any reading or research you would have read numerous articles of restrictions and limitations placed on various groups and societies because the fear of offending minority muslim groups. If you claim not to, there are only two options, you are stupid or you are a liar. Your choice.

.................................so I can look up the actual information of each picture and show you where you've made an error.

Right, so you are either stupid, or a liar and arrogant.

Ha. Where is it again that I am lying? Please directly quote any lies contained in what I've written - and I'll show you where you have made an error. I did say that I'll give you the benefit of the doubt regarding your personal experience in Australia, also that that experience, if true, does not relate to a continent on the other side of the world, so why have you mentioned it again as though that is relevant to this thread?!

You can call me stupid until the cows come home. it doesn't change the fact that I'm not making fantastical claims that require me to make personal insults in order to distract from the fact that I can't back them up.

[Ozi]

Ha. Where is it again that I am lying? Please directly quote any lies contained in what I've written - and I'll show you where you have made an error. I did say that I'll give you the benefit of the doubt regarding your personal experience in Australia, also that that experience, if true, does not relate to a continent on the other side of the world, so why have you mentioned it again as though that is relevant to this thread?!

You can call me stupid until the cows come home. it doesn't change the fact that I'm not making fantastical claims that require me to make personal insults in order to distract from the fact that I can't back them up.

Insults? You are a liar or a fool, That's not an insult, that's a fact.

Quote: I can't refute anything you say about your personal experiences in a butcher's shop and all the rest - if I knew where you lived etc then I'm pretty sure it would become clear that you're not telling the whole story.

That is just total arrogance, calling me a liar. But protected by your keyboard you can get away with bullshit all you like. It really is a shame we can never be face to face.

I really hope you live long enough to see the shit that's coming, because you won't be capable of defending yourself and your muslim friends will ensure that morons like you will be amongst the first casualties.

You have never provided any facts when asked in the past and never will, you simply ignore specific comments and then fall back on your normal bullshit.

Here's an opportunity, what about the article from the Guardian August 2009. There's some facts quoted in there, dispute them? Don't ignore it, dispute them.

[Maturin]

Insults? You are a liar or a fool, That's not an insult, that's a fact.

Quote: I can't refute anything you say about your personal experiences in a butcher's shop and all the rest - if I knew where you lived etc then I'm pretty sure it would become clear that you're not telling the whole story.

That is just total arrogance, calling me a liar. But protected by your keyboard you can get away with bullshit all you like. It really is a shame we can never be face to face.

I really hope you live long enough to see the shit that's coming, because you won't be capable of defending yourself and your muslim friends will ensure that morons like you will be amongst the first casualties.

You have never provided any facts when asked in the past and never will, you simply ignore specific comments and then fall back on your normal bullshit.

Here's an opportunity, what about the article from the Guardian August 2009. There's some facts quoted in there, dispute them? Don't ignore it, dispute them.

And on that bombshell... Ozi this time, kills another thread.  I'll ignore you from here on out and your pathetic attempts to goad me into a reaction that discusses anything other than the issue. I have not insulted you, somebody disagreeing with you, although it is obviously hurting your feelings, is not insult. Start a thread on, "Why I hate Maturin 'coz he hurts my fweelings all of the twime. I wish he wouldn't challenge the fantasy ideas I have," or some other bollocks, as you're obviously struggling with this particular topic.

All I asked you to do was to prove the fantastical assertions that you're making, do that and salvage a bit of credibility for yourself man. I'm not going to read things for you. If there is something in this article, quote it and link it here. Easy-peasy.

Plus - this article is from 2009 apparently! God damn you! It insults me that you expect me to read an article that is out of date, doesn't include current data, current trends or current issues (even though my report did).  You simply pick and choose when you will follow your own arbitrary rules etc, etc, more personal bullshit, yawn.

[JoJoGunne]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jgQOJNnVeUg

[JoJoGunne]