albacore Posted November 18, 2015 Share Posted November 18, 2015 I totally understand that and that's why I said they need to stop worrying about their feelings and take care of business!! My other point was that you and I as individuals need to be ready to take matters into our own hands if and when the threat arrises and not depend on our specialized groups to be there when needed! If your the man of the family then you need to be ready to defend your family at all times and not wait until it happens 3 doors down to start getting ready for it! Just my :two cents: ! The movie "Lone Survivor" based off the Marcus Lattrell story was a good eye opener about how our military cares too much for these peoples feelings. If that squad would have gagged them sheep herders and tied them to a tree they would have all survived! Yes all very true. Could not agree more. Although I think many do feel this way but the current administration does not. I think that is why Trumps ratings are high. Weather you like him or not .... he says what people are thinking and that is his connection point. Now back to the topic at hand ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StnCld316 Posted November 18, 2015 Share Posted November 18, 2015 Yes all very true. Could not agree more. Although I think many do feel this way but the current administration does not. I think that is why Trumps ratings are high. Weather you like him or not .... he says what people are thinking and that is his connection point. Now back to the topic at hand ... One good thing about Donald Trump, War is not on his mind like all the other idiot politicians that currently sit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foamy T. Squirrel Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 I have no intention of avoiding war by the act of surrendering, either to an avowed enemy or to any government. Any other attitude invites enslavement, death, or more war. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozi Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 The movie "Lone Survivor" based off the Marcus Lattrell story was a good eye opener about how our military cares too much for these peoples feelings. If that squad would have gagged them sheep herders and tied them to a tree they would have all survived! Some of the most highly trained, highly skilled soldiers on the face of the earth. Better than anyone, they would have known exactly what the outcomes of every action they took was going to be. Trained killers, chose not to tie innocent sheep herders to a tree, which, if you had any experience in that terrain, would know could have been a potential death sentence, even with all the risks that decision brought upon them. That's not caring about peoples feelings, that's caring about peoples lives. But you, with no skills, no training, basing your opinions on a movie based on reality, would have what? Yeah, right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ww_watcher Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 It is hard for most people to prepare for something when really have no idea what to expect, the reality of the resources available to them, or, and most important, how to control your emotions under stress. I am sure that there are enough hunters in this group to know what "buck fever" is. For those who don't, it is the shakes that you get just before you kill a living creature...like a deer (buck)...for the first time. It is very important because you can freeze up at the wrong moment and that be the difference between life and death. That's what I mean about emotional control. Like several others here I do have some combat experience but never had to actually kill anyone. I am a hands-on kinda guy but I don't even like to hit people. It hurts me inside. Laugh if you want, my resolve would allow me to step up if I had to defend my family or the students here but would/could a normal person? I would say that most people can not do this. They would require someone with training to protect them. I don't know how you would prepare an average person for a possibly deadly confrontation without some professional training. I've seen mean ole bullies crap their pants and cower to the ground after getting shot at by a farmer with a shotgun loaded with rock salt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozi Posted November 20, 2015 Share Posted November 20, 2015 Firstly, it's really good to hear from some real soldiers. It doesn't surprise me anymore as to how many navy seals, special forces and recon snipers there are out there, more than were ever trained. As I've also mentioned before, a pet hate of mine, 3 out of every 4 Vietnam Vets are fake, taking support and benefits away from those that deserve them. Secondly, there's also the recognition, reading between the lines, that not all soldiers are combat soldiers. The ratio used to be 4 support staff for each infantry soldier, but in Iraq and Afghanistan, I know this was as high as 7 support staff for each infantry soldier. All trained to use a weapon, but few actually required to do so. In fact, if it does get down to combat support shouldering weapons, the shit has truly hit the fan. But, being able to field strip a weapon and achieving a nice tight grouping on a controlled range, doesn't prepare you for combat or even the capability to defend yourself with a split second warning. Instinct and muscle memory developed after training and more training and more training and, believe it or not, more training. You have to be one of the best soldiers already to be selected for special forces, 18 months of intense training to qualify you for more, on-going daily intense training. Instinctive reactions and muscle memory begin to deteriorate immediately after you stop that intensity. But hey, all we have to do is get all the armchair warriors to don a uniform and draw a weapon and send them to the middle east. They'll fix the problem in no time. Or we could just get the ones that think a bomb will fix it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBone Posted November 20, 2015 Share Posted November 20, 2015 3 out of every 4 Vietnam Vets are fake, taking support and benefits away from those that deserve them. Your painting with a pretty broad brush, amigo. Would you like to explain to us what exactly vv vets are faking and what support and beni's dont they deserve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozi Posted November 20, 2015 Share Posted November 20, 2015 3 out of every 4 Vietnam Vets are fake, taking support and benefits away from those that deserve them. Your painting with a pretty broad brush, amigo. Would you like to explain to us what exactly vv vets are faking and what support and beni's dont they deserve. Don Shipley: For those unfamiliar with the name, Don Shipley is a former SEAL himself. But what he seems most known for these days is his work in calling out phony Navy SEALs and other military impostors and frauds. Over the years, with them in the news from the beginning of the Iraq War and the public's increased wartime reverence for valor, SEAL has become a “popular” title to fake. Shipley has been quoted as estimating that “there are over 300 SEAL Impostors for every living Navy SEAL.” Captain Marshal Hanson, USNR (Ret.) and CPT. Scott Beaton: This is hard to believe, losing nearly 711,000 between 95 and 00. That s 390 per day. During this Census count, the number of Americans falsely claiming to have served in-country is: 13,853,027. By this census, FOUR OUT OF FIVE WHO CLAIM TO BE Vietnam vets are not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ww_watcher Posted November 20, 2015 Share Posted November 20, 2015 I ask myself, Do I deserve the recognition of those who put themselves in the line of fire on a daily basis? Hell no. Did I try to do my part to insure the safety of our country? Hell yes. I am a post Viet Nam war vet. I was in the US Air Force as an Avionics tech. However, on weekends I would put on a badge and either hunt down those who were AWOL or clear the Airmen out of off-limits bars. While on duty I have been shot at several times, shot once (but the actual target had nothing to do with us - just in the wrong place), stabbed with an ice pick in bar room brawl started by the biker/owner because we were clearing out his best clientele, but not once was I attacked by an enemy of the country. I have had to make arrests that weren't peaceful and once as a Pinkerton Man I had to shoot someone with a "bean bag" then cuff them. That is the extent of my combat experience but it is more than most and I can say with certainty that most tough talking humans are not prepared even for that. You have to ask yourself, "Can you realistically protect your household?" If the answer is no then you need to fix it or plan for it. The time has come when we no longer have a choice to rely on our local law enforcement to do the job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corboblanc Posted November 20, 2015 Share Posted November 20, 2015 les médias appellent tous les Français, à faire le maximum de bruit, de lumière et de musique, ce soir, à 21heure 20, pour le 1er anniversaire de la tuerie du vendredi 13 novembre!!!! the media calls all the French, make the most noise, light and music tonight at 21heure 20 for the first anniversary of the killing of Friday, November 13 !!!! :nana: :nana: :nana: :nana: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarleyFatboy Posted November 20, 2015 Share Posted November 20, 2015 Some of the most highly trained, highly skilled soldiers on the face of the earth. Better than anyone, they would have known exactly what the outcomes of every action they took was going to be. Trained killers, chose not to tie innocent sheep herders to a tree, which, if you had any experience in that terrain, would know could have been a potential death sentence, even with all the risks that decision brought upon them. That's not caring about peoples feelings, that's caring about peoples lives. But you, with no skills, no training, basing your opinions on a movie based on reality, would have what? Yeah, right. I totally agree they would have known exactly what actions to take. I'm not disputing that, but what I am disputing is the need to change the rules of engagement that our military has to follow. Our military has their hands so tied they can't do anything! You are also correct that I have had no former military training as i was never in any of the armed services so i'm not going to profess to be an expert on the subject matter as you have. I will also say that with my own training I know how to defend myself and my family if the need arises! I will also say, if I would have been in their situation those sheep herders would have been tied to a tree and gagged and i would have dealt with the punishment when i got back! Because at least I would have been alive to deal with it!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozi Posted November 21, 2015 Share Posted November 21, 2015 I totally agree they would have known exactly what actions to take. I'm not disputing that, but what I am disputing is the need to change the rules of engagement that our military has to follow. Our military has their hands so tied they can't do anything! You are also correct that I have had no former military training as i was never in any of the armed services so i'm not going to profess to be an expert on the subject matter as you have. I will also say that with my own training I know how to defend myself and my family if the need arises! I will also say, if I would have been in their situation those sheep herders would have been tied to a tree and gagged and i would have dealt with the punishment when i got back! Because at least I would have been alive to deal with it!!!! First of all, I don't profess to be a subject matter expert in all things military, but I am an SME in my specific fields, which does cover some of the above topic. Secondly, you acknowledge never having served in the military so possess no formal military training, yet claim to understand the rules of engagement. By chance, you did get one thing right, the rules of engagement probably do need to be reviewed and changed, but you can be sure of one thing, will not include the intentional harm or death of innocent, unarmed civilians. As for the dead Navy SEALs, I was happy to follow your lead on potential outcomes, but don't rely on a movie based on fact. One of the most significant causes of their problem was lack of adequate comms. A conscious decision was made not to kill or harm the goat herders, instead opting to abort the mission. Fortunately for Luttrell he didn't have that kill on site mentality, otherwise he would have shot the villager that found him and ultimately saved his life. You are lucky because you never have and never will have to make those choices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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