Foamy T. Squirrel Posted November 18, 2015 Share Posted November 18, 2015 The common theme, regardless of anyone's point of view, is that the entire mess is a giant cluster-fuck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itay Posted November 18, 2015 Share Posted November 18, 2015 ww_watcher you are not entirly correct, it was the shae who decided to nationalize the oil, he was also in proccess of devoloping a nuclear weapon (with greate help of then friend israel) this two things made the usa and the british to help the islamic to take over. i know this for a fact as both of my parents were iranian and fled to israel after the revoloution. it is not true that the usa foster the war to protect israel. in effect it is well known that the usa give weapon to iraq whilst israel give weapon to iran as sadaam was a bitter enemy of israel. iraq never had a nuclear weapon. they tried to develop it but the nuclear reactor was bomb by israel (which many years later the un condemned israel for regardless of the fact that without us they probebly would have used it on the usa during the first gulf war) speaking of nuclear bombs, few years before the uprising israel bombed a nuclear reactor they were secretly developing. think how things would be today if they had a bomb and isis or other terror organization would take over it? but go on everybody, keep blaming israel for everything. the fact is that we helped the western world much more then they helped us, if the usa wasn't so vein and listen to israel warning about the 9/11 it would be prevented. israel knew about it and delivered a very detailed info about it to usa officials but was ignored because nobody thought it can happen back then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBsq69 Posted November 18, 2015 Share Posted November 18, 2015 While they were fighting each other for "thousands of years", they didn't have terrorist groups killing people in America, Canada, Europe and Australia. This phenomenon started when WE decided to move in and interfere, divide up the nations between various super powers, promise autonomy which we never gave them, attempted to control the flow of oil, replaced governments with leaders of our choice, verbally supported regimes while secretly funding their enemies etc, etc, etc. WE didn't create this monster? Maybe we helped create the exported terrorism but the extremist views are all their own making. In the past other peoples may have behaved as they did - the difference is they have the world of communications to learn about right and wrong and yet they choose to ignore it. Have you any idea how many 10s of billions the Saudis and their Gulf friends have put into schools which foster hatred of the West in a philosophy which dates back to the 18th century not the Gulf War. And BTW they hate the Shiites even more than us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBsq69 Posted November 18, 2015 Share Posted November 18, 2015 Blame Israel for its treatment of the Palestinians, but as for the rest of Middle East's problems I think you have to look at the rivalry between Iran and Saudi which is directly behind this botched attempt to oust Asad. Although I suppose US/Israel/Saudi relationship has also been a contributory factor. The US should defend Israel against other countries but should not have picked a side within the Muslim world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ww_watcher Posted November 18, 2015 Share Posted November 18, 2015 Thanks Itay. Back in '78 and '79 I taught, at different times, Iranian and Arab airmen how to maintain the Reccon cameras on the RF-4 Phantom. One of the fellows I taught was, and don't laugh because it has been 35 years, Womafar Medhi Khoukohee. That's the best I can remember his name and rank. Although we were all friendly, he stood out; I think because he was the only Christian among nine other Muslims. I was a bit too unrefined for the Muslim fellows who came from wealthy families and had some college already. One of them was a musician and played some traditional Persian music, which I happened to like, and I got to accompany him on bass. Anyway Medhi (I hope I am spelling his name correctly) told me a little about the politics of Iran. He said it was good the Shah was in control of the country because of medicine and general quality of life. I may have misinterpreted some of what he said but when the Islamic revolution hit he disappeared and his buddies accused us of hiding him because he was Christian. We had no idea where he was for about two weeks after the others had left. It turns out that he had applied for political and religious asylum because some members of his family, who were government employees, had been killed on the first day. He didn't have any other family as far as I knew. We never saw him after the day he came to gather his belongings and say his goodbyes. He did get the asylum though. He spoke English as well as most high schoolers so I doubt he had any problems fitting in here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corboblanc Posted November 18, 2015 Share Posted November 18, 2015 daech was created by the United States, and I think it is in the interest of the USA and israel, leaving chaos in the Middle East forward !!!!! France to arm the Islamists she said "moderate", to fight against assad !!! most of these Islamist "moderates", today joined daesh !!! which means that the bullets removed from the bodies of 129 victims of Paris, have chance to be stamped "made in France" !!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itay Posted November 20, 2015 Share Posted November 20, 2015 BBsq69 , there is nothing to blame israel for. while i do not agree with the opinions and actions of the current prime minister i do not blame my country a single bit. the fact is that we offered them greate peace many times, and even let them have parts of jerusalem inculding holly places of the jewish people. yet they declined it time after time. the problem of the palestinians is not the 67 lines but the 48 line. the plo started in 64, before we took over of the west bank and gaza and their mission was to destroy israel and jews. before 67 the west bank arabs were part of jorden and the gaza arab part of eygpt and they never asked for a country. israel is not the one to blame for the palestinien not having a country, they are the only one to blame. and about the muslim wars. i don't like any side but the irani side is much more dangerous to the entire world then the one led by saudia. for many decades the saudies funded terror and schools of hatered, but they realized that they can't contain them and start fighting terror including suni terror. iran is the biggest terror funder there is today and they on the path of gaining nuclear weapon (much due to your beloved obama). the world must take the suni side or it will pay big time and the years to come. corboblanc. i assume you are israeli like i am as only in israel we use the term daech. the rest of the world knows it as ISIS. while i hava no problem Isis and other organizations killing asad,iranian and hizbballa and vice versa, it does create huge terror problme to the rest of the world, and worst then that is gives iran and hizballa some credibillity as they seem to be saviours of the world fighing ISIS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foamy T. Squirrel Posted November 20, 2015 Share Posted November 20, 2015 The heart of the problem is very old. Warlords derive their power by convincing their followers that their enemy is the cause of the problem, and those enemies are then dehumanized, and then killing them becomes justified. Directing a religious ideology against "infidels" has been useful, and Islam considers it a noble action. Hitler did that against the Jews, and Muslim warlords were doing that in Europe centuries before the "New World" was discovered by the Amer-Asians. Since then, the problem has never been resolved, and modern complexity has merely succeeded in heaping more and more confusion and violence onto the pile of bodies. I suggest Europe come up with a King Jan Sobieski pretty damn quick. The US is not adept at handling these situations, and its current administration is naive, weak, passive, and totally incompetent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corboblanc Posted November 20, 2015 Share Posted November 20, 2015 the problem is that all the terrorists who acted in France, in January or November, know nothing about the Muslim religion !!! these are small holes in the suburb of ass, who are indoctrinated in two months !! we just found the body of terrorist th February 1st in Belgium, during the assault of police, following the attacks in France. it was identified, its neighbors and acquaintances testified: it was a young alcoholic woman who took drugs and prostitute occasionally !!! she did not even know a phrase from the Koran !!!! Kabyle a friend told me that it was the same kind of freaks who sowed horror in Algeria, and that religion was only an excuse, that allowed a bunch of degenerates, can enjoy their sadism and their desire to kill !!!! these crackpots have no knowledge of Islam .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foamy T. Squirrel Posted November 20, 2015 Share Posted November 20, 2015 the problem is that all the terrorists who acted in France, in January or November, know nothing about the Muslim religion !!! these are small holes in the suburb of ass, who are indoctrinated in two months !! we just found the body of terrorist th February 1st in Belgium, during the assault of police, following the attacks in France. it was identified, its neighbors and acquaintances testified: it was a young alcoholic woman who took drugs and prostitute occasionally !!! she did not even know a phrase from the Koran !!!! Kabyle a friend told me that it was the same kind of freaks who sowed horror in Algeria, and that religion was only an excuse, that allowed a bunch of degenerates, can enjoy their sadism and their desire to kill !!!! these crackpots have no knowledge of Islam .... No, but their leaders know enough about Islam to make it their tool. Other religions are not immune to this misuse, either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brureb28 Posted November 20, 2015 Share Posted November 20, 2015 No, but their leaders know enough about Islam to make it their tool. Other religions are not immune to this misuse, either. Squirrel's ready... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TxFeller Posted November 20, 2015 Share Posted November 20, 2015 I heard a very interesting point of view yesterday from a woman who is knowledgeable about the middle east. She believes ISIS is trying a long-term recruiting tactic that is a bit convoluted in its thinking. They carry out these attacks to intentionally inflame the rest of the world against Muslims, leaving them only the caliphate-to-be as their refuge in the world. She says they're not only recruiting soldiers, but also doctors, engineers and administrators. If she's right, it's a pretty shrewd plan that could very well lead to the extinction of the Muslim religion. Fits in very nicely with the post by.... StnCld(?) concerning why there were no Muslims in the Star Trek movie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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