The National Anthem

[ericjeanjean]

2 minutes ago, Thestarider said:

Oh, say can you see,
By the dawn's early light,
What so proudly we hailed,
At the twilight's last gleaming?
Whose broad stripes and bright stars,
Through the perilous fight,
O'er the ramparts we watched,
Were so gallantly streaming.
And the rocket's red glare,
The bombs bursting in air,
Gave proof through the night,
That our flag was still there.
Oh say does that star spangled banner yet wave,
For the land of the free, and the home of the brave.

So i guess then in your country it is ok to disrespect your flag and your National Anthem, but when you have friends and family die for the freedom that flag and Anthem provide , you bet you will feel strong about this subject. Just by the nature of the protest, is being very disrespectful to our flag and the anthem that provides the freedom for those who believe that have been oppressed, and BTW that he was also pretesting the police, and law enforcement.

My opinions are my own. There were outrages when football players did not sing the anthem in France too, I think it is a sign of nationalism coming back (as it is almost everywhere and the world) because 30 years ago Platini did not sing the anthem and nobody thought he did not like his country.

I also think that there are many Americans that did not think it is a big deal that Brandon Marshall got up or not and I'm sure they love their country and everything it stands for.

[ww_watcher]

2 hours ago, ericjeanjean said:

I'll let the super patronizing part slide since you appear to feel very strongly about the subject.

These guys have stated multiple times that they respect their country and the troops, they are just using that FREEDOM to send a message about a problem they perceive in their country. This is a civil problem and nothing else. Participation in singing the anthem is not mandatory and I feel that criticizing the act itself is not right. You can argue against their reasons if you feel that they are wrong, but saying that if they don't stand up they are against all the values of your country is unfair since, as you said, the freedom of choice is at the core of what the USA represent.

I have mixed feelings on this subject so I fall back on my upbringing for certain things. I will always stand in respect for national anthems of other nations who hold the views of freedom similar to most Americans. Its just respectful. My beef with those two athletes is that they are representing an organisation whose only concern is getting what they want by violence and a terrible aversion to looking at themselves for answers. There are too many really good examples of black Americans who have risen above petty disobedience, and other irresponsible behavior, to contribute to the betterment of all. I can name three who were one or less generations out of slavery and have contributed immensely to the world. The worst part is that I am "cracker white" -and Hispanic, German, Italian, and Scot- and still know more about Black History than the jokers you see at the BLM gatherings and the NBP party. Those who can match my knowledge are the ones you don't hear about because they are busy making a living for their families and/or leaving some kind endow-able legacy. None of BLM's ilk have ever stopped to think that Martin Luther King Jr. Did more without the use of violence than they ever will - oh there was violence, but Dr. King strictly and vocally eschewed it - and have set the civil right movements back decades. 

The squeeky gear gets the grease but many of the quiet ones have learned how to make the grease so they don't have to squeek.

 

[ericjeanjean]

12 minutes ago, ww_watcher said:

"Insane" wasn't my choice of words but you might be a nicer person than I. However, be careful with that "knowing". Many "smarter" people than I have tried to convince me of the same thing about many of our greatest college football players. They rely on the premise that I won't look it up. All state paychecks and budgets are open record for public viewing and since my arguments reflect that research they write me off as another uninformed disgruntled employee who hasn't seen a raise in about a decade while they are thinking of paying the college athletes.

I'm not talking of the system as a whole which might not even be profitable seeing the coaching salaries (and I'm sure a lot of other bullshit). I'm talking specifically about star players like Brandon Marshall since that's specifically who Bill O'Reilly was talking about. They are the one bringing in the crowds/tv rights, donations, etc... Saying that these guys got the opportunity to study for free is wrong, they earn it, especially since they lose their scholarship if they are kicked out of the team.

Honestly I find it baffling that some Colleges have stadiums who can have an attendance > 100,000 people and not turn a profit, if it's the case the whole system doesn't make any sense.

I think everyone sane will agree that a football coach should be pretty far down the list in an University salary grid.

[ww_watcher]

6 minutes ago, ericjeanjean said:

I'm not talking of the system as a whole which might not even be profitable seeing the coaching salaries (and I'm sure a lot of other bullshit). I'm talking specifically about star players like Brandon Marshall since that's specifically who Bill O'Reilly was talking about. They are the one bringing in the crowds/tv rights, donations, etc... Saying that these guys got the opportunity to study for free is wrong, they earn it, especially since they lose their scholarship if they are kicked out of the team.

Honestly I find it baffling that some Colleges have stadiums who can have an attendance > 100,000 people and not turn a profit, if it's the case the whole system doesn't make any sense.

I think everyone sane will agree that a football coach should be pretty far down the list in an University salary grid.

There is profit but it isn't meant to pay the salaries of the University staff. I think it falls within the insanity to take monetary endowments to build buildings that can't be completely staffed, just to get your name on a plaque.

[ericjeanjean]

14 minutes ago, ww_watcher said:

I have mixed feelings on this subject so I fall back on my upbringing for certain things. I will always stand in respect for national anthems of other nations who hold the views of freedom similar to most Americans. Its just respectful. My beef with those two athletes is that they are representing an organisation whose only concern is getting what they want by violence and a terrible aversion to looking at themselves for answers. There are too many really good examples of black Americans who have risen above petty disobedience, and other irresponsible behavior, to contribute to the betterment of all. I can name three who were one or less generations out of slavery and have contributed immensely to the world. The worst part is that I am "cracker white" -and Hispanic, German, Italian, and Scot- and still know more about Black History than the jokers you see at the BLM gatherings and the NBP party. Those who can match my knowledge are the ones you don't hear about because they are busy making a living for their families and/or leaving some kind endow-able legacy. None of BLM's ilk have ever stopped to think that Martin Luther King Jr. Did more without the use of violence than they ever will - oh there was violence, but Dr. King strictly and vocally eschewed it - and have set the civil right movements back decades. 

The squeeky gear gets the grease but many of the quiet ones have learned how to make the grease so they don't have to squeek.

 

Yeah, that's a problem with a lot of causes there are always organizations who will use methods that are too radical and end up hurting their cause in the process.

[ww_watcher]

17 minutes ago, ericjeanjean said:

Yeah, that's a problem with a lot of causes there are always organizations who will use methods that are too radical and end up hurting their cause in the process.

I think extremists are always a problem in that they cannot see the wisdom of any other through the glare of their own self-proclaimed piety.

[StnCld316]

4 hours ago, Thestarider said:

Oh, say can you see,
By the dawn's early light,
What so proudly we hailed,
At the twilight's last gleaming?
Whose broad stripes and bright stars,
Through the perilous fight,
O'er the ramparts we watched,
Were so gallantly streaming.
And the rocket's red glare,
The bombs bursting in air,
Gave proof through the night,
That our flag was still there.
Oh say does that star spangled banner yet wave,
For the land of the free, and the home of the brave.

So i guess then in your country it is ok to disrespect your flag and your National Anthem, but when you have friends and family die for the freedom that flag and Anthem provide , you bet you will feel strong about this subject. Just by the nature of the protest, is being very disrespectful to our flag and the anthem that provides the freedom for those who believe that have been oppressed, and BTW that he was also protesting the police, and law enforcement.

We have a Canadian Anthem but our Fucking Politicians keep feeling the need to keep changing the words every couple of years.

They just got to keep making changes to please the immigrants.

[woodworker]

4 hours ago, StnCld316 said:

We have a Canadian Anthem but our Fucking Politicians keep feeling the need to keep changing the words every couple of years.

They just got to keep making changes to please the immigrants.

Why don't they just have the immigrants fire their guns into the air afterwards?    

I know that most Muslims seem to go for that in a big way.   Usually mixed in with that absurd noise that their women folk all make with their tongues.    Very jubilant.  

[ericjeanjean]

I read this interview of Gregg Popovich today, he's saying almost exactly what I was trying to say about the subject, he's just 1000x more articulate and credible than I am.

http://www.esquire.com/sports/news/a48937/spurs-gregg-popovich-respects-athletes-protesting-national-anthem/

[woodworker]

I didn't open the link above, just as I don't open up any un-expected packages left at my door, ever since Ted Kaczynski.   (The Unabomber)

But the blue line reads, gregg-popovich-respects-athletes-protesting-national-anthem/

For one thing, who a fuck what he respects or thinks.   And for another,.. If you hate this country so damn much, then get the fuck out of it.  

So why don't you just take your dreadlocks and your multi-million dollar contracts, and head on back to Somalia, or some other Muslim hell hole over there, and then you won't have to endure hearing our national anthem anymore.

[ww_watcher]

On 9/27/2016 at 11:32 AM, ericjeanjean said:

I read this interview of Gregg Popovich today, he's saying almost exactly what I was trying to say about the subject, he's just 1000x more articulate and credible than I am.

http://www.esquire.com/sports/news/a48937/spurs-gregg-popovich-respects-athletes-protesting-national-anthem/

I doubt that he is any more articulate or credible than you, though I disagree with him on several points.

One of the main points I have a problem with, is that "it is easier for whites because we didn't have to live through slavery and the problems associated with it later on." Those who buy into this narrative are walking a dangerously precipitous path to a dead end. Very few people born in the last 50 years know anyone or have known anyone, who was a slave. The vast majority of black colored Americans have a job that affords them a good life. The ones you see rioting and protesting are protesting for no better reason than a good excuse to violate someone's hard earned living by rioting and looting. The whites who are with them are even more ludicrous because they are validating bad behavior in the name of what? Social injustice? They represent a closet full of skeletons of their own making. They need to spend more time reading about what the root problems truly are and acting on them in a productive -not destructive- manner. In most cases they won't even need government assistance. Before anything like this will happen, though, they will have to assume the responsibility for their own behavior, only then will they understand what they need to do to fix their own problems. 

Kaepernick and his ilk are disconnected from the reality of where and how they live. He had adopted parents who are white and gave him everything he needed to earn the multi-million dollar paychecks; so where is the white on black injustice. He could not have done this in any other country in the world. Has he ever been harassed by the police? Probably no more than I, when I was a teenager. Does he really think that cops target blacks? Only when a black person paints a target on their back.  The BLM rabble have never acknowledged the truth of the matter concerning racism and violence in their own communities; they simply ignore that they are their own worst enemy. They only want what they want and if we (the haves not the whites) don't give it to them they destroy everything within their grasp. That is little more than the tantrums of a petulant child. The truth is that the police aren't any harder on them than they are on anyone else - black or otherwise. There are just to many facts and figures out there that don't support their cry-babying. To the contrary their are to many examples of successful black Americans

Here's a good question. Would you hire a person who comes sauntering in to a job interview wearing their baseball cap cocked sideways at a jaunty angle with their pants hangin' down to their knees and boxers showing, talking in a ghetto style language? Don't confuse this question as stereotypical. I have had that happen many times and gotten fired once, at the insistence of the NAACP, for telling the applicant to come back when they have learned to dress and speak in a manor that best represents the company they will work for. You don't have to wear a tie but don't look like this is a short stop before you head back to the crib to chill with your homeys and dab queens. This job was simple and I taught the applicants the skills they would need for the job; and it paid $10/hrs + benefits ...in the 80's. 

This country is great - even with the extensive problems we are having. We give more food and money and medicines and medical help and technologies to more countries than any other country on this planet. We are having a management crisis right now and the BLM group is centered on their own personal problems.

[Linked]

I see all this talk about service members. Well here you go, as a combat veteran (OIF) I will give my two cents.  If they want to kneel let them. It is a right they have. If they want to be disrespectful little dickwads it is their right. I have told numerous people to remove their hats, but have never told someone to stand. If I ever run across someone standing on or god forbid burning my flag, they will be missing teeth when I am done.  I still serve the people of the US with pride and have the backs of my brothers and sisters who serve along side me and those who have given their lives for this country and her people.  If they want to kneel and cry like little babies let them it is their right. It is also my right to not watch them, call them little bitches, and not give them a dome of my money.