Is the collapse of the EU possible?

[Thestarider]

French Prime Minister Manuel Valls sounded an alarm during his visit to Berlin on November 17. He said the European Union is in danger of breaking apart unless France and Germany, in particular, work harder to stimulate growth and employment and heed citizens’ concerns.

Valls said the two countries, for decades the axis around which the EU revolved, had to help refocus the bloc to tackle an immigration crisis, a lack of solidarity between member states, Britain’s looming exit, and terrorism.

“Europe is in danger of falling apart,” Valls said at an event organised by the Sueddeutsche Zeitung newspaper. “So Germany and France have a huge responsibility.”

The French PM sounded the alarm after Donald Trump’s presidential election victory in the United States and the growing concern about how this could affect Europe.

Certainly, far-rightists and populists will try to exploit to the maximum the ‘Trump effect’ and seek to translate it in electoral advances.

The political climate in Europe is favourable to populist rhetoric that has been fuelled by the refugee and migrant problems, which remain unresolved, as well as rising unemployment rates and weak social welfare policies. In addition, Brexit might not only close the door to European immigrants, but create more jobless in other European societies.

Indeed, France and Germany are an axis in the heart of Europe. But the latter is the strongest one of the two. Germany decided how financial discipline will be applied in the EU member states and imposed the austerity model in the European Union.

Over recent years, EU officials have been  scrambling  to deal with the eurozone crisis, soaring  unemployment , the threat of Islamic State terrorism and the unprecedented influx of migrants into Europe.

The EU is going through a crisis which leads me and others for the first time to consider whether we are not heading towards disintegration.

“The EU has never been hit by such a high number of different crises of this gravity.

“What I am concerned about is that, although the EU has developed itself historically through a process of crisis, response to the crisis, and advancement, this time around it may well n

Britain’s vote to leave the European Union has started the bloc’s “disintegration”, Italy’s minister for European affairs has said.

Sandro Gozi, an ally of outgoing Italian prime minister Matteo Renzi, said his country was facing a “period of uncertainty” following the vote this weekend to reject a planned constitutional reform.

The centre-left Democratic Party minister argued that the referendum defeat represented a missed opportunity to reform European institutions and save the EU from falling apart.

I think that the beginning of European disintegration has started with Brexit,” The Euro is a problem for Italy right now and we would like to get people’s voices on that because we never did. There were so many promises made by the old politics which people believed. I think the Euro is damaging the Italian economy.

 

 

[wathou]

The whole world is truning to shite anyways ^^'

[Foamy T. Squirrel]

The EU is dysfunctional. It's a nanny socialist organization that dictates self-serving political solutions on its member states without regard to the diverse needs of its members or their individual citizens.

Europeans blew themselves up twice in the last century, but I think that Europeans have changed their tune and instead will just surrender to Islam and Putin's dictatorship.

[Maturin]

The EU isn't a nation and the same countries that are part of it will continue to exist and work together if/when it does collapse.  I'm loving how Trump supporters - and the obvious fact that that support demonstrates that they don't know how the world works - are lecturing on the intricacies of the EU with its 28 member states that don't equivocate in any way with the States of the US.

Are you trying to deflect attention away from the very real possibility that states such as California will seek to scede from the US once Trump starts pushing his idiotic climate change denying agenda?

Europe won't surrender to anything - as is what usually happens, when it goes to shit here we drag the whole world down with us, every time.  That's what you should be afraid of.  Who on this side of the pond would give a shit when/if California fights for independence?  But when/if your European chums start fighting then we're going to make sure the rest of the world burns with us - now that is influence that the US has never had and is desperate for, it'll be time to get schooled soon enough!!!

[Foamy T. Squirrel]

1) I am not a Trump supporter. I am a Goldwater conservative, so therefore I am a Libertarian. Still, Trump is a better bet than a felonious opportunist who has Marxist support. If I was a Marxist, I would have voted for Sanders, who at least is an honest man.

2) The states have limited (via the Constitution) the power that the US Federal Government can wield. The power of the EU is far less limited. The EOCC was a good idea, but blanket restrictions that limit the freedom of individuals looks really scary to traditional Americans.

3) California will not secede from the Union, although I think it would be great if interior counties of California formed their own state. They hate being ruled by the mobs in SF and LA.

4) I don't give a damn about Europe. Just quit fucking up. The US doesn't care about you -- we were always better on our own. I suggest you look to the East where the bear is stalking you.

 

[quiet_lover1]

sure collapse of the EU is possibly, after all what is going on nowadays especially with regards to the mass media and bias reportation or also misinformation of the media... Europe was kind of a 'safe' country but now you absolutely don't know what is going to happen. Election of french and also german politicans is going to be this year and they are one of the strongest countries in the EU... and what you know now is that radical right-wing are in the top positions to become leaders in those countries and there are for sure not interested in collaborating with 'foreigners' ... this world is going down 

[Guest]

There are strong powers in Europe that seriously fight against the right-wing extremists and want to build a better-working, economically stable European Union. These groups already have a very apt motto: "We will make the EU great again!"

[Foamy T. Squirrel]

The problem with a single Europe is fairly simple: it would require that the member nations sacrifice their own individual cultural, historical, linguistic and national identities. People are stubborn and do not dump their traditional cultures easily without the use of force.

A unified Europe was attempted twice in the last Century by Germany, and at least once in the 19th Century by the French, to ill affect.

A EU government that can override the varying desires of such a mix of cultures would need to resort to fascism (meaning the use of coercive power, its original meaning) in order to attain its goals.

The best that could be hoped is that the power of EU government be limited to coordinating common needs (can you say free trade and open commerce?), helping to mitigate natural disasters, working to stifle food-fights between its member nations, and encouraging each nation to do what its culture does best.

Any government worth its salt encourages its citizens to be productive according to their individual talents; it does not seek to squelch the individuality of citizens or member nations. Hence, a decentralized and Federation with limited power is the best Europe can hope for. If such happens, fine, but considering even the US has failed to keep its Federal government from assuming totalitarian power, I would expect Europeans will follow suit, and ultimately split-up into factions at some point, too.

I keep my vinegar and baking soda in separate containers. Both have their uses, but I avoid mixing them unless I want to make a mess.

[van the man]

The UK (with massive help from the US) saved Europe from itself at least twice in the 20th Century. Brexit will go down in history as the first time the UK has saved Europe from itself in the 21st Century. For the first time the EU (the Brussels elite, gravy train riders, undemocratic, failed small country politicians) have had to face a country whose people rose up against 'their' view of the world. Normally when faced with a democratic decision they thought was wrong they simply ignored it or told those countries to vote again until they came up with the 'right' decision.

This time the UK turned to Brussels and said 'fuck you'. Please note the UK did not say 'fuck you' to the great nations of Europe. It did not say 'fuck you' to international trade (we still love German cars and French wine and Italian clothes etc etc). It did not reject Nato or stop wanting to support Europe against whichever enemy threatens Europe. The UK rejected a Soviet Union of Europe. An anti-democratic coercion of nation states into a 'so-called' Federation of ex-nations who have no borders, no culture, no leadership or government (or at least government with no greater status than a local council). The written constitution of Europe as decided upon by the 'founding fathers' (sic) was put to a referendum in a number of countries. Spain said yes and the giant power that is Luxembourg said yes. France and the Netherlands said a resounding NO!! After these events the EU had a moment of reflection (they wondered what the fuck they could do!!) until they decided to simply alter existing treaties to get what they wanted anyway. Oh the wonders of democracy!!!!

With regards to the adoption of the Euro the French people voted 51-49 in favour of adopting the Euro. Isn't it strange that this was considered a resounding victory and yet our beloved political class across Europe consider a 52-48 Leave vote in the UK to be a narrow decision that should really only be treated as a 'consultation' and perhaps a second referendum could be held simply because it was such a close call!!!!!!

The Euro is a complete basket case of a currency that without the absolute and total commitment by the desperate Brussels despots to do anything they can to prevent it breaking up (this includes the destruction of Greece and the imposition of 12% unemployment across much of Europe with over 25% youth unemployment in Spain). 

The Brussels machine is now set against the UK and they are determined to 'drive a hard bargain' over membership of the single market (a British idea by the way!). Everyone is telling us that it will cost billions and result in a major economic downturn especially for the UK but also for the people of Europe where 5 million jobs depend upon trade with the UK. So who will benefit from this tough stance by Brussels? Certainly not the people of Europe. Brussels stance is based on purely frightening other nations who might dare to consider leaving the EU. Imagine if the EU and the UK simply maintained existing trading arrangements? Both parties could continue to prosper. Both nations hard pressed people could enjoy economic prosperity!! But NO - Brussels would sooner see millions unemployed!! After all their own pensions and lavish salaries are protected and guaranteed to be paid by the proletariat!!

The UK has been an independent nation for many many years and have never favoured a European political entity. The only other time the UK voted on Europe we were told the project was 'only' an Economic Trade organisation. What a great lie that turned out to be!!!!!

The collapse of the EU is not only possible, it is happening already. As an economic power the EU is already in massive decline. The only country benefiting from the the imposition of the Euro is Germany. The reason for this is that is what it was designed to do! If Germany still had the Deutsche Mark it would have to be massively revalued upwards. The balance of payments surplus in Germany is a major threat to the economic prosperity of the world (along with the Chinese trade surplus achieved with an under valued currency - a theme there I think!). The economic reality is not that the likes of Greece should leave the Euro currency (they should anyway) but that Germany should leave. Trump may be wrong on many things but he is not wrong on currency valuations. Germany must revalue as must China.

So the collapse of the EU project is underway. The revolution has started. Currency manipulation is being undermined by economic reality. The people of Europe are beginning to agitate against their slow but sure loss of hard fought for democracy. Hopefully that wine and champagne swilling failed small country politician Mr Junker, will eventually suffer the same fate as Benito Mussolini. I think I have a suitable length of rope in my garage!!! 

[MrBox]

 

[MrBox]

 

[Beldonn1]

Seen in London these days...

There was, a long time ago in UK, a similar joke starring Thatcher and Reagan in Gone with the wind manifest. Thatcher saying : I will follow you to the end of the world, Reagan replying : I will organize it...

To my point of view, nothing really bad happened, but nothing good either.

In the US, I think we are heading toward an impeachment of Trump with the help of the Republican senate. Even Fox News is critical now...

On Europe, I think UE is now too strong to fail, as big banks are, and too difficult to get away from it as UK discovers it now.