What The United States Has In Store For Their Citizens

[Foamy T. Squirrel]

Then it's true -- the consensus among experts is that Pirates have caused global warming.

And to think, all this time, I thought Manbearpig was just a lone terrorist...

[albacore]

Then it's true -- the consensus among experts is that Pirates have caused global warming.

And to think, all this time, I thought manbearpig was just a rogue acting alone...

Exactly.  Pirates ... they are the ones!!  Liberals do use relative numbers to make a point.  Many buy into that.

I do generally agree with KarenKraft's view and I am a conservative in most areas.  Although KarenKraft seems rather strong in this thread.  Something must have really rushed her button!!. No such thing as a knock out punch on a message board though - it can just keep coming back in a new way ... so need to make the point an let it go - all the way around.

Don't mean to piss anyone off but this can go forever.......

[Ozi]

Intriguing conversation! Personally I think the only thing the US needs to fear is the ignorance of our younger generation. If they don't understand basic history, politics, and economics, They will keep voting for socialists. Like the president now in office.

I do not fear invasion from the outside or from within. The reason for this is our 2nd amendment!

In Wisconsin alone there were over 600,000 hunters this season! That's more men under arms than in Iran. Or more than France and Germany combined! Wisconsin's hunters alone if organized would be the 8th largest army in the world.

Unfortunately, you need more than a knowledge of just basic history and politics to understand how the world got into it's current mess, particularly how the so called super powers of various generations, including the US, Britain and France, have manipulated events which eventually have always come back to bite them.

Also glad you used the words 'if organised'. I'm sure many people actually thought 'Red Dawn' was a documentary, rather than a fantasy.

[woodworker]

Ozi, I don't dispute your premise about war benefitting certain individuals financially.  Because in that respect you are right, although many of these individuals were already very rich.

But where would we have been during the second world war without such people as Henry Ford, who was turning out bombers at the rate of one per hour.  Hitler himself was stunned by this achievement.

And I know that Henry wasn't a good man, or an ethical man, and even in what he did to his own son was down right cruel.  But industry leaders, some good, and some not so good, helped us in our countries both here and abroad to win that war. 

What I think about when I think of that great battle back then is the camaraderie that the people all shared in during that time.  You can say that they were naïve, or even childish in their innocence as to the things that they were never made party to or aware of; but there was this common good will and togetherness that pervaded that whole era.

My mother worked in one of those factories that built the bombers, (And no, she didn't look like Rosie the riveter).. But she told me once that none of the women ever complained about the long hours or the work, and that their only concern was for their husbands and boyfriends fighting overseas. 

And I know that there was this same greatness about the people in Great Britain, and in Australia, and in Canada as well.  Even Hollywood showed itself to be patriotic back in those days.  Unlike now with all of it's leftist communist sympathizers.  To me, speaking for my own country at least, that's when America really was America. 

I know that people such as you, and Van, and the Squirrel, all know a lot about the military and in history and such.  But I'm just speaking more about the great spirit of the people back then.  Something that just seems to be missing nowadays, thanks to advent of liberalism.  For they have shown themselves to have nothing but distain for this country now, both here and abroad.   

[KarenKraft]

On a recent TV show, they were discussing the function of envy.  What we have seen in this thread recently is a revelation of envy couched in  political notions. 

Anyway, in the TV episode, there were two monkeys in separate but connected plexiglass cages. When M-1 performed a task, he was rewarded with a slice of cucumber (a nice treat for these monkeys).  It was very happy performing the task and receiving his reward.  That was, however, until M-2 was rewarded with a grape instead of a cucumber slice for performing the exact same task.  M-1 went nuts.  Fully postal.  Shook his cage in rage.  It seems that a grapes were much more desirable rewards than were cucumber slices. 

Had he not witnessed the other monkey getting the grape, he would have been thrilled to work all day for cucumber slices; once he saw how the one-percenters live, with their corrupt military-industrial complex, he went ape shit (NPI) and it was Occupy Monkey Cage real horror show from that point on.

That's all you need to know about the politics of envy: it is not something you learn.  It is something primates have wired into their brains.  Well, at least the less cosmic and philosophical ones. Speaking of monkeys, that is the reason one of the political parties in the U.S. panders to that hard wired sense of [un]fairness at election time:  Women against Men; White against Black; Rich against Poor; Gay against Straight, and so on.  They realize that their uneducated constituents are still in the lower primate zones.  Or something like that.

All too often we judge our happiness and base our sense of fairness on what other people have or earn. Fairness over substance.

People who complain about folks getting rich by providing materials ordered by the government for military purposes sometimes are unaware of the root causes of their frustration -- which may have less to do with their points of view than with some selfish and intrinsic "fairness" construct and value system. 

They see the goal as not being equity, but equality.  "If I don't get to live at the beach, nobody should.  It should be owned by The People, and everybody should have a fair chance to live at the beach!" 

Essentially, that is an anti-social mechanism. 

But I Might Be Wrong.

[Ozi]

People who complain about folks getting rich by providing materials ordered by the government for military purposes sometimes are unaware of the root causes of their frustration -- which may have less to do with their points of view than with some selfish and intrinsic "fairness" construct and value system. 

They see the goal as not being equity, but equality.  "If I don't get to live at the beach, nobody should.  It should be owned by The People, and everybody should have a fair chance to live at the beach!" 

Essentially, that is an anti-social mechanism. 

But I Might Be Wrong.

I gather that was meant for me.

Read that post and three words come to mind; Arrogance, ignorance and immaturity.

[Ozi]

Ozi, I don't dispute your premise about war benefitting certain individuals financially.  Because in that respect you are right, although many of these individuals were already very rich.

But where would we have been during the second world war without such people as Henry Ford, who was turning out bombers at the rate of one per hour.  Hitler himself was stunned by this achievement.

And I know that Henry wasn't a good man, or an ethical man, and even in what he did to his own son was down right cruel.  But industry leaders, some good, and some not so good, helped us in our countries both here and abroad to win that war. 

What I think about when I think of that great battle back then is the camaraderie that the people all shared in during that time.  You can say that they were naïve, or even childish in their innocence as to the things that they were never made party to or aware of; but there was this common good will and togetherness that pervaded that whole era.

My mother worked in one of those factories that built the bombers, (And no, she didn't look like Rosie the riveter).. But she told me once that none of the women ever complained about the long hours or the work, and that their only concern was for their husbands and boyfriends fighting overseas. 

And I know that there was this same greatness about the people in Great Britain, and in Australia, and in Canada as well.  Even Hollywood showed itself to be patriotic back in those days.  Unlike now with all of it's leftist communist sympathizers.  To me, speaking for my own country at least, that's when America really was America. 

I know that people such as you, and Van, and the Squirrel, all know a lot about the military and in history and such.  But I'm just speaking more about the great spirit of the people back then.  Something that just seems to be missing nowadays, thanks to advent of liberalism.  For they have shown themselves to have nothing but distain for this country now, both here and abroad. 

Woody, I don’t disagree with your comments at all, but that was a different era. Peoples attitudes, expectations, work ethics, they have all changed since then. You will never duplicate what that generation did again.

This topic was about what war produces and achieves, not the hardware to fuel it, and what the overall cost is, the lives of soldiers that ultimately pay the price.

We were not talking about an enterprising business that supplies products and makes a legitimate profit. It was about the big end of town, the bankers and faceless men that really run governments and create these conflicts to further their own wealth and power. We were talking about the powerbrokers that create these conflicts with no thought of the human cost.

The Gulf War with Iraq began in 1990 and with many years of military involvement looking for WMDs, flowed almost seamlessly into the 2003 Iraqi war (that invasion alone cost the Australian taxpayer over $5billion, so what did it cost the US?). The Iraqi war was technically over in 2010, but there was the overlapping start of the war in Afghanistan in 2001, still going today.

To this day, the U.S. spends billions annually to maintain a large military presence in the region, has done since the Lebanon invasion in 1958. It provides billions in military hardware to client states, in particular to Egypt, Saudi Arabia, and Israel.

So in reality, the US has been at war continually since 2001, almost 14 years. Take into account the Gulf war and continued presence since 1990, you could almost argue it’s been on-going for 24 years. But let’s just stick to 14. If war is such a bolster to the economy, why hasn’t it fixed the economy in the US?

It was also about the great armchair warriors that think they can fix the middle east crisis with saturation bombing, yet have never been involved in conflict, never had to face an enemy whose sole intent is to kill you before you kill him (and anyone that thinks that is easy is either a liar or psychopath). They have no concept of the terrain, physical or human, don’t understand the politics of the region, have limited knowledge of the history. (People should have spent some time at the patrol base Wahab, in the Baluchi Valley. Maybe tried the mountain ranges of Kunar and Nuristan. Experience the terrain and the logistical nightmares and understand why airstrikes won’t win the war. Try a dismounted patrol on the streets of Sangin in the Helmand province, or a village to village clearing operation. Experience the people and logistical nightmares and understand why airstrikes won’t win the war.)

It’s a shame that many threads have been hijacked and are now dominated by foul-mouthed, immature comments, with very little substance. Maybe it’s not the best site to get serious, but it is a serious subject, and the idea of debate and discussion is to convert the opposition to your way of thinking, or visa versa, not alienate them further. It’s also a way to share facts and maybe educate each other. To be honest, I’m not really sure I can be bothered anymore.

[KarenKraft]

People who complain about folks getting rich by providing materials ordered by the government for military purposes Blah blah blah...

But I Might Be Wrong.

I gather that was meant for me.

Read that post and three words come to mind; Arrogance, ignorance and immaturity.

No, not specifically,  It was a more generalized post, inspired by your bringing up the topic.  I wouldn't ascribe personal motivations to  another person posting here.  I was making a more general observation.  Sorry.

Adding: It's always a mistake to try and fix miscommunication problems when dealing with blow-hards.  I retract my efforts to address the issue of government expenditures in a civilized manner (which you classify as arrogant and childish). 

Yeah, I'm just an inarticulate child; you really know your stuff, Oswald.  I am so impressed. 

IGGY

[KarenKraft]

Ozi --

I tried to fix it, but I can see you have decided that my posts are unworthy of your precious time.  I'm sorry you have determined that I am too arrogant and too childish for you.  But the solution is easy:

Iggy.

Bye.

[Foamy T. Squirrel]

Personally, little Squirrel would wish that you'd all calm down a bit.

We need differing points of view here. I'm not opposed to Kal, Ozi, Woody, or KK expressing their different views. But none of us should take this forum, or ourselves, too seriously.

And certainly not vindictively.

That said, I'll take a breather myself. Maybe I'll see what's cranking at the Juke Box...

http://angryalien.com/1005/wowbuns.asp

[woodworker]

Ozi, If there's one thing that I do know, it is that the liberals will never listen to reason, or honor the truth when certain facts are placed before them.  It's been tried by many intelligent and articulate people before with no fruitful outcome. 

That is the sole reason for my own frustration over these imbeciles.  They themselves will never accept the failures over their past policies, and are determined to destroy the constitution of this country which is the very thing that was put there by the founders of this country in order to keep dictators in check, and to try to guarantee our now disappearing freedoms. 

I've heard you say many times concerning your own country, asking, "What the hell has happened to my country?"  And that is what we too are experiencing here, within our own consternation and ire. 

Being now 64, I can tell you that what has transpired here now over the past forty or so years has been so destructive, in both education, in the way that they now deliberately go about lying to these kids in order for them to not think well of their own country, and to indoctrinate them into becoming a worthless liberal just like themselves.  And then of course there's that liberal media that has done so harm to our social values, and in making young girls now accept themselves as nothing more than sluts, and whores, through their repugnant rap, and hip hop, and of course MTV.  Just look at what they allow to air nowadays with that vulgar display of Miley Cyrus recently.  Just more disgusting tripe for the young to latch onto.       

And No, It does no good to argue with them, or to debate with them.  For they are not honest or honorable people in their devices to reach their own aims.  They even created this stifling political contrivance that they termed "Political Correctness" just to keep others from even daring to take issue with them on whatever lying propaganda they are now spewing, like Global Warming for example.  One of these semi famous liberal idiots, the son of JFK, actually said, "If someone doesn't believe in global warming they should be put in prison."  They have been pushing that agenda since the sixties.  I actually heard some telecast of junk scientist claiming that the world would end by such and such time because of it. Which meant that the world should have ended some 17 years ago.  They want to be able to control our industries and to diminish our capabilities through this great lie of theirs. 

And then there's the Gay Marriage thing.

So much for the Gay's great lie in being tolerant, the filthy maggots!  So God help you if you own a catering service and do not wish to host a Gay marriage through your business due to your own religious beliefs.  For in their tolerance they will sue you, and will hound you, and threaten you, and lambast you through their liberal news papers, until you end up folding up your business over it.  Which has just happened here in Texas recently.  That's the hypocrisy of the liberals for you. 

Once you know them for what they really are, you will soon realize that they don't give a fuck about social values or morals, they just want to have it all their way or else.  And they don't give a fuck about your own religious beliefs.     

It's hard for me not to get a little angry over the demise of this country.  And yes I am very passionate about my country.  And you only have to look at the students abysmal education for one, to see what really matters to these malignant Democrats, who now embrace this absurd and destructive liberalism.

 

[KarenKraft]

Personally, little Squirrel would wish that you'd all calm down a bit.

We need differing points of view here. I'm not opposed to Kal, Ozi, Woody, or KK expressing their different views. But none of us should take this forum, or ourselves, too seriously.

And certainly not vindictively.

That said, I'll take a breather myself. Maybe I'll see what's cranking at the Juke Box...

http://angryalien.com/1005/wowbuns.asp

No, I'm too arrogant and childish to include Ozi in my sphere.  Don't fall into the double standard the left always mounts:  When a Republican is caught lying, it's all about being dishonest, horrific, typical of the GOP, vindication of the theory that family values don't really exist on the right, etc.  When a Democrat is caught lying, the left dismisses it as, "Politicians. They all lie.  Nothing new here!"

I will battle with anybody who wishes to discuss politics with me.  Left, right, or otherwise.  When discussing the United States of America and what is happening to her and what the future may bring, I prefer to discuss the matter with (1) other Americans; or (2) non-Americans who have some sort of understanding of American life and culture.  Far down the list, one would find the stupid foreign sons of criminals. 

So, no, I was talking about the economic and technological benefits of both war and the run-up to war -- Exocet Missiles was a foreign example of showing how weapon systems perform in real conflict, etc.

For that effort, I received name-calling and no reasonable response, except to learn that this individual dismissed me as arrogant and childish for my efforts. 

That's fine, that's Its opinion.  It can express it however it wishes, but I won't see it, as it's on Iggy.  I never put anything worthwhile on Iggy.