B7 - General Topic 2026 #1 (January)

[Epikouros]

Il y a 9 heures, ddhm a dit :

Il y a 9 heures, Tabman a dit :

Market Garden 😐

Exactly …September 1944.

And the harsh "Hunger Winter" of 1944/1945 that followed that defeat at Arnhem / Market Garden, mainly.

France, Belgium & southern Netherlands (South of the Rhine & other big rivers) were already liberated by then, so they escaped the worst of the cold & famine (made worse because of occupation, rationing,...) of that winter. But most of the Netherlands is north of those rivers and they were kept occupied by the Germans until spring 1945 because of that defeat, and it turned out to be the worst winter of the war for them...

But most of the Dutch-German rivalry of the generation born after the war has to do with football (soccer, for Americans). I think it started with the World Cup of 1974, or perhaps some matches in the 1960s already. A saying of those days was: "Football (soccer) is a game with 11 players on each side, and at the end of the game, the Germans win.". And that saying is still sometimes used today (at least, when the Germans win). 

That being said, the "animosity" shouldn't be overestimated too much: Dutch & Germans have no difficulties visiting each other's countries. For most people, it's mostly "friendly rivalry" now, comparable to USA (pre-Trump) vs Canada, Swedes vs Danes, Belgians vs Dutch, Portuguese vs Spanish, Northern Italy vs Southern Italy, or even between some cities within the same country (we all know those of our own countries)...

In short: they're not effectively at each other's throats (anymore) since a long time.