Ozi

I'd rather have small over fake.

The opposite of Leora. Some call the shape The Apple. Certainly not a nice crisp Pink Lady or sweet and firm Rome Beauty, more your Granny Smith.

You don't have to log on, its not compulsory.

No, my problem has been trying to have a logical discussion with an idiot, so will just cease all discussions not just the topic of refugees.

What, so now you are an expert on Australia?. I have explained this in a previous post, but will repeat it again for your benefit: - Two of our biggest exports are iron ore and coal that nobody wants. In 2013/14 we exported 650m tonnes of iron ore worth $750 billion. But in 2014/15 we increased the export to 750m tonnes of iron ore but instead of the expected $900 billion it was only worth $550 billion and still falling. Now, not only has the price fallen further, but so have the quantities exported. - Coal went the same way. In Jan 2011 it peaked at around $185 per tonne, but in Jan 2015 it was well below $50 per tonne. Couple that with the fear of global warming and the problems with fossil fuels, we are in serious trouble. - The Labor government did exactly the same as the Coalition government they took over from, they looked at the mining boom and decided it would last forever, so borrowed against it, spent future projected income, made commitments years in advance. The trouble is the GFC did impact on Australia; it crippled our exports, bursting the mining boom bubble. Add to that their philosophy of increasing welfare support and weakening our borders with increased asylum seekers, it’s like any other business, if your income is less than your expenditure, you go broke. So you don’t understand basic economics. A company selling its goods at a reduced price when its production costs increase due to inflation, makes less profit. Less profit means less taxes to the government. And the mining companies do pay taxes, despite what some idiots claim. Less profit means less jobs which means less income tax to the government and potentially more unemployed on welfare. Less personal income means less disposable income, which impacts on small business. And so on and so on and so on. In addition to GDP, you need to look at our Balance of Payments (BOP), not just the difference between our imports and exports, you also need to factor in the fluctuations in commodity prices and exchange rates. But you would have done that when comparing GDP. Right? As of 28 February 2014, the gross Australian Government debt was A$300,628 million; at 15 August 2014 it was A$326,552 million; and at 13 March 2015 it was A$361,085 million. That’s an increase of just over 20% in 12 months. Due to our reliance on mining exports and our increasing requirement to imports due to the collapse of our manufacturing industry, that deficit will continue to grow. In other words, we are going broke, and have been for years. But once again, you fail to grasp the topic. I have blamed the greed of our unions and mismanagement by all governments for our dilemma. I have stated that the migrants have contributed to the problem but are not the sole cause. I have highlighted that the Australian Government’s last budget had already made cuts to education, health and genuine social welfare programs to try and reduce the Current Account Deficit. This additional $900 million for the 12,000 refugees therefore, has to be found in addition to the budget cuts already proposed and as the Government are intent on reducing the deficit, have flagged more cuts. If our deficit has increased by 20% in 12 months and the trend looks to continue, then I support the government in its efforts to reduce the trend. What I don't support is the cuts made to genuine programmes in need of more not less, then spending $900 million on a bunch of refugees. We have people suffering in corridors in our hospitals, that don't even get a proper bed. We have pensioners living below the poverty line. So yes fuck the refugees and leave them where they are, we have enough of our own needy to care for.

Yet again, you still continue to show total ignorance of the topic. The 12,000 refugees that we are taking are additional to our usual immigration quota. They will go through a selection process like any other legal applicant. They will be coming directly to Australia as successful candidates of our immigration program. They will not be processed offshore with the illegal asylum seekers. However, unlike normal migrants, they will be arriving with not much more than the clothes on their backs, hence the direct costs associated with settling them into the country. Serco has nothing to do with them. And comparing the GDP of two countries is meaningless, without critical comparisons that effect the cost of living in those countries. The average monthly wage in Turkey is $1,731 compared to Australia at $2,610. The cost of living per month for a single person in Ankara is less than $700 per month. In Sydney it's over $1,200 per month. And, they will be living in houses, not tents. Any idea what 2,000 homes cost in Australia? As usual, you haven't got a clue what you are talking about.

As usual, every time you put pen to paper, or in this case, touch the keyboard, you highlight your total ignorance. Australia is not going to take the first 12,000 refugees that turn up for our selection process, and yes, as flimsy as it might be as hardly any will have documents, there is a background check carried out. To get 12,000 you will need to process closer to 50,000. "That costs money". Once you’ve selected your 12,000 you have to fly them to Australia. "That costs money". Fortunately, as they are refugees and have very few possessions, there’s probably no excess baggage charge. Once they arrive in Australia, with no funds and few possessions, they will all be provided with a whole new fitout of clothing and shoes, as well as basic commodities like toiletries and personal hygiene products. "That costs money". Based on the first group to arrive, let’s average them out as mum, dad and four kids, six to a family. That’s 2,000 houses we will have to provide. "That costs money". Using the basic family group, that accounts for approximately 8,000 children. Even at our abysmal rate of 40 kids per classroom, we need to find another 200 teachers. "That costs money". As many are in a poor state of health, most, if not all, will need immediate access to medical facilities and then on going as normal, an additional burden on our overstretched hospitals. "That costs money". As very few will find employment in the current climate, in addition to lack of language and employability skills, all will be receiving social welfare payments, from unemployment benefits, child allowance and a myriad of other services for most if not all the initial 18 to 24 month period. "That costs money". My question was where people thought the money comes from. Not one person answered that. But guess what, you were the only one stupid enough to query the amount, which, if you understand even basic concepts about the process, is not excessive or unrealistic. Well done, yet again.

I'd have thought both of you would have been around long enough not to ask such a dumb question.

So that's your solution, take in Syrian refugees. So how many, 1,200? Maybe 12,000 like Australia? How about all 2.5 million? America is a rich country, you can afford it. Why stop at Syria, why not take in all the Afghans while you're at it, that's only another 2.5 million give or take. Then there's the Somalis, but that's just over 1 million. So that's just 6 million to start things off. How many are you going to take on? Maybe just a basic family to start off, mum and dad with 6 or 7 kids. That shouldn't be too difficult for a good Christian boy like you. Then once you've got them settled, they can bring all their extended family members and in-laws. So let's just ignore the complex issues, like how their countries are so fucked in the first place, how they bring their fucked culture and religion with them, how they establish ghettos and enclaves wherever they have settled, how they slowly but systematically change the culture of their host country. Let's just look at a simple question, the same question your like minded posters fail to answer, choose to ignore, where does the money come from? Australia's 12,000 will cost an unbudgeted $900 million and the government has made no secret that it will cut overly stretched services like health, education and welfare even further than they have.

Easy to say when someone else is doing the dying for you.

You really do live in a timewarp. Try using those bullshit comments for the families of soldiers that were killed up until 2015, or the thousands of vets that can't get support. And be prepared for the deaths in "another great year". Or the families killed in terrorist attacks in places like France. Or the millions of refugees that you are apparently so concerned about. We are not talking about predictions, we are talking about the world as it is now.

So you can obviously answer a simple question and tell me where the $900 million will come from that the Australian taxpayers have to find to support 12,000 additional refugees, considering it wasn't part of the budget which was already in the red?

Interesting statement, because if you allow your government to keep doing what it's doing you will become one of the poor and desperate, so you will be able to blame yourself for all your problems. Pity you couldn't understand the poor financial management I blamed for most of the issues.

There are more than 4,000 species of cockroaches and apparently they live everywhere including the Arctic and Antarctic. The world's largest roach lives in South America, which claims say can grow to six inches long with a one-foot wingspan. Don't know about that, but I've seen some big buggers in the cellars of the old brewery in Perth. Apparently thrive on the hops, so probable pissed to boot.

I'm just following the same line of logic. Apparently, refugees and asylum seekers are a commodity everybody must want because of "the net gain a nation receives from immigrants". Greece as the distribution centre must be making a fortune from the EU. One of the concepts people need to grasp is there is a massive difference between a controlled, selective immigration policy and a mass surge of illegal immigrants and asylum seekers. If it's such a net gain for countries like the UK, why, like everybody else, do they spend millions protecting their borders. Australia has a controlled, selective immigration policy, which means you don't bring in more people with mining industry skills when there is already an abundance of already qualified miners unemployed. It is still failing to achieve its target, but it is better than no policy, like "lets just take an extra 12,000 refugees". Looking at Australia, that has financial issues, a falling GDP, overcrowded hospitals, overcrowded schools, failing infrastructure, pensioners living below the poverty line, where do you think the extra $900 million comes from, because they can't just go to the Mint in Canberra and print some more cash. It means less money for the already fucked hospitals and schools, less money to prop up the decaying infrastructure, less money for genuine social welfare programmes like our pensioners and war vets. I will save confusing people by not calling our political parties Labor and Coalition, better to refer to them as their American counterparts, Democrats and Republicans. The reality is they are both so left of centre, its a competition to see who can fuck the country the quickest.

Isn't Greece so lucky then. Will all the illegal refugees they've just had land on their doorstep, they should be able to pay off their debts by the end of the year.

Thanks for reminding me about that. I was so worried about that little piece of material slipping between those lips, I completely forgot about the tv.

Australia promotes itself as a rich country, but is far from it. A political storyline to push up our worth, our value on the world circuit. Classic example, we have a small defence force that we can hardly sustain in a peacetime role, but we beat our chest and involve ourselves in what are probably worthy overseas conflicts, but that we can ill afford. So let’s blame the previous Labor government, our version of America’s Democrats. The new Coalition government, our Republicans, claimed they inherited all the shit from Labor. Problem of course is that Labor claimed they inherited the problems from the Coalition when they were last voted in. The reality is that it doesn’t matter who is in power, its taken decades to get to where we are. The issue isn’t Labor or Conservative, Democrat or Republican, Socialism or Communism; no system can work if they aren’t managed properly. Labor - “centre”, Coalition – “centre right”. They could almost swap policy documents on most issues and no one would know the difference EXCEPT when it comes to our welfare society, Labor will bankrupt the country quicker. Australia, like many other countries, is now blaming the rich and powerful, the multi-nationals, for not paying their share. So when did this new phenomenon start? I don’t know what’s been happening in other countries in the past, but in Australia they’ve never paid their fair share, so that can’t be the cause of our current dilemma. The real cause is decades of bad management that is now catching up with us, but what government, no matter what ideology they follow, is going to admit to that. Australia’s 3 biggest imports are oil and now machinery and vehicles, things everybody needs but we can no longer produce. A Royal Commission has just announced findings of how corrupt our union system has been, add that to years of government mismanagement, and kiss goodbye our motor industry. Two of our biggest exports are iron ore and coal that nobody wants. In 2013/14 we exported 650m tonnes of iron ore worth $750 billion. But in 2014/15 we increased the export to 750m tonnes of iron ore but instead of the expected $900 billion it was only worth $550 billion and still falling. Now, not only has the price fallen further, but so have the quantities exported. Coal went the same way. In Jan 2011 it peaked at around $185 per tonne, but in Jan 2015 it was well below $50 per tonne. Couple that with the fear of global warming and the problems with fossil fuels, we are in serious trouble. The Labor government did exactly the same as the Coalition government they took over from, they looked at the mining boom and decided it would last forever, so borrowed against it, spent future projected income, made commitments years in advance. The trouble is the GFC did impact on Australia; it crippled our exports, bursting the mining boom bubble. Add to that their philosophy of increasing welfare support and weakening our borders with increased asylum seekers, it’s like any other business, if your income is less than your expenditure, you go broke. And the cost of illegal migrants and asylum seekers, and I'm not talking normal immigration policy, is crippling every country in Europe, including the UK. Announced this week; “The Australian Federal Government will spend more than $900 million to resettle an additional 12,000 refugees fleeing Syria and Iraq.” That’s $75,000 each! At least in the very near future, if we want to shoot muslim terrorists, we won't have to travel abroad anymore.

Pepe! Where have you been hiding?

Firstly, I’m not the one that raised the issue of tax and my right to expect certain benefits from these taxes. In theory those expectations are accurate, but theory doesn’t work. Someone said take 10 economists and you’ll get 10 different solutions. So don’t theorise, don’t spout ideology, get off your arse and look at what’s really happening. I work in Australia and I pay tax. I also pay a Medicare levy, which contributes to the public health system. I say contributes because in doesn’t generate enough funds on its own. Most families to survive now have two incomes. If our combined income is over a certain amount, we either take out private health cover, in addition to the Medicare levy we already pay, or pay a higher levy. We don’t have a choice. The Federal Government has calculated 34% of its expenditure this year is on welfare. Not the low figures some idiots have spouted of 5%, not 10% or even 20%, but 34%. And that doesn’t include health and all the additional state welfare payments. Health and education are a state expenditure paid for by government grants, state taxes and the Goods and Services Tax (consumption tax) collected on behalf of the States by the Federal government. I didn’t send my kids to a private school because I could afford to, I sent them because that was the only guarantee I had they would get a half decent education, in a half decent environment. Those classes of 35 to 40 with just one teacher are also half full of kids that can hardly speak English, so how well do you think the rest are allowed to advance. My family sacrificed a lot to make that happen, including a second mortgage. So now 34% of my tax is spent in welfare, from which I get nothing. I won’t even get a pension when I retire because the amount I have invested in superannuation is above the maximum I’m allowed, even though it puts me below the poverty line on financial returns, which means each year I have to dip into the principle. We are fine as long as we die within 7.5 years of retiring. I get no benefit from the Medicare levy I pay because I have to pay private health cover whether I like it or not. And even that is a rort. A politician, our famous Treasurer, on a massive six figure salary, boasted recently that when his son broke his leg, he opted to use the public hospital because it was closer and he ended up paying just $25.00 which was an extra for a waterproof cast. So here is a guy that earns at least 8 times my salary, pays the same private health fees that I do, but chooses to utilise the public hospital who get no benefit from his private fund. If I get sick, something simple like the flu, that requires prescription drugs, I have to go to see a doctor. After the medicare contribution, and by the way, my private health only covers hospital treatment, it doesn't cover a trip to a doctor or emergency department, I'm out of pocket around $35 to $40. I then go to the pharmacy and pay approximately $25 to $30 as part of my contribution to the medication. So medicare levy, private health fund costs, $60 to $70 for the doctor and 1 script. Sent home to bed. If I'm unemployed, receiving benefits, I can just turn up at the Emergency Department at the local public hospital, they won't turn me away. They will provide me with access to a doctor, free, provide me with medication, free, and if I'm an alcoholic or a junkie, a hot shower and a warm bed for the night. I got nothing from the public education system. The roads are a disgrace and power and water bills are high because successive governments, both labour and liberal, have allowed the services to deteriorate to such a point the nation can no longer afford to replace them but we spend billions patching them up. So the small fraction of my taxes that aren’t spent in areas from where I receive no benefit, are spent on illegal immigrants and refugees, and let’s not forget the millions thrown at our black cousins, with the balance used to cover the high costs of administration, mostly exorbitant salaries. I don't need to go out and research my own life or that of my friends. We are the middle income, working class poor. An unemployed man, with a wife and six kids, living in a government provided house, actually has a higher standard of living than I do now and a more comfortable future ahead of him because the government, thanks to us taxpayers, will look after him. Governments have mismanaged funds and wasted resources for years, always have and always will. Corporations have always found ways to avoid paying their share, always have, always will. What's different now is the creation of the welfare state, sometimes second generation in the same household that have never had a job, never will. Some can't find work, but many don't even try. Why should they, the taxpayers will look after them. But many have cars, most go out drinking, most can afford to smoke, they nearly all have flash clothes. Except for their kids of course, barefoot and hungry in many cases. And this is the scum that get the benefit of my hard earned dollars that pay my tax. And that hasn't happened overnight, it wasn't caused by one party or the other when in power, it's not down to one form of government over another. Society has become week, people have no self esteem, they have no respect for other people or other people's property. There are no consequences for negative actions anymore, no respect for law and order.

"Modern socialism protects things that should be regarded as a universal right. All of the above should be universal rights to citizens but where does our right to expect such things come from? From our taxes of course." That kind of stupid, pathetic and idiotic statement is sadly what I have now come to expect. I've worked all my life, full-time since I was 20, part-time when at university, even had jobs on when I was at school. Used to be up at 5 am to do a paper round before going to school. So what do I get from the taxes I've paid all my working life? Absolutely sweet fuck all. - Free healthcare? I have to pay for private health cover to make sure my family get to see a doctor when they need one. My wife recently needed to see a specialist, my private heath got her booked within 2 days, public health, paid by my taxes would have taken 6 months. - Free education? I had to pay for private schools for my kids, to make sure they weren't stuck in classes with one teacher with up to 35 - 40 students. Yes the government claims better ratios than that, but they even include the fucking administrators and cleaners when they add up all the staff employed, all the non teaching elements. - Infrastructure? What, like the roads that are so badly deteriorated they actually damage my vehicles with potholes and broken up edges and are responsible for many accidents. - Power and Water? As a percentage of my income, those services now cost me 500% more than they did 20 years ago, because the governments have not maintained them. - Pension? Despite compulsory superannuation, only about 20% of the population will have an income above what the government considers the poverty line. So who does get my taxes? - All the alcoholics and drug addicts that clog up our healthcare system. - All the unemployed that collect benefits, breeding like fucking rabbits because the more kids, the more benefit, the bigger the free house. - The so called political asylum seekers who contributed nothing to our society and bleed it dry when they get here. - And lets not forget the fucking politicians who line their pockets and guarantee themselves a healthy retirement package. I really should have known better than to even bother getting involved in this kind of discussion, with all the armchair experts who obviously live in Utopian world, or are probably just as doped up as the fuckwits clogging up our hospital corridors.

NOT A JOKE................ The annual Boxing Day Sydney to Hobart Yacht Race is fast becoming one of the most famous in the world, attracting yachts from numerous countries including the US and China. Interestingly, the Chinese yacht was withdrawn before it got out of Sydney Harbour, but as I type this the US yacht Comanche (that's how they spelt it) is in the lead with a second US entry, Rambler, not far behind (bloody Yanks). A Western Australian yacht, built in Dubai, named Indian, got into some serious trouble in some rough seas. The official site stated "This is what happens when you stray off the reservation — Indian battling 35+ knots and sea-sickening waves." Shortly after they were forced to remove the comment because of all the complaints they received about "racism", "bad taste" and "culturally insensitive". Just to make sure that those that weren't offended would be, the newspaper report added an explanation that "Indian reservations are areas of land set aside in the United States for native American tribes". They had to explain it to people so they could be offended. My concern now that we've raised the topic of reservations is, WTF do we do if Comanche wins? Will they claim my beloved Tasmania as theirs? But really, how far can political correctness go? Infinity?

Absolutely. Sadly, whether socialist, capitalist, communist, totalitarian or whatever, we all have our own versions of Kim Jong-un, just some do it overtly, some very covertly.

Thanks for the tip. I tried turkey legs once, after two bites, gave them to the dog. Even he thought they were tough. Will give them a second chance, with a real slow cook this time.