woodworker Posted July 1, 2016 Share Posted July 1, 2016 2 minutes ago, Timewarp said: Hawking holds the post once held by Newton himself and is most likely the most brilliant physicist alive. People like myself value science and logic. That makes religious belief impossible. Your free to believe or not believe in whatever you like. I had a friend in the past that was an atheist. But he never tried to come off as if somehow he was smarter than those others that didn't see this conflict between science and God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timewarp Posted July 1, 2016 Share Posted July 1, 2016 I think that sometimes it depends on the level of belief and belief in what. I am not going to lie. I have a very difficult time taking anyone who believes the bible is an actual history of human events seriously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrBox Posted July 1, 2016 Share Posted July 1, 2016 Just now, woodworker said: Sorry to disappoint you Box, but I don't waste my time viewing your little videos. However, I have read much about Einstein, and in his own hand he stated that the universe and the laws within it only strengthened his belief. Ok. ... I make it a bit more easy for you. ... Just have a look to this qoute of A. Einstein: Quote It was, of course, a lie what you read about my religious convictions, a lie which is being systematically repeated. I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it. So. It is not about the facts. It's about what you want to believe. For me, this also explains very well why you and some others still believe in Trump. ... It has nothing to do with facts. ... Trump is just the center of your belief system that you dislike to give up, Even when all facts show that he noting more than a big bad joke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodworker Posted July 1, 2016 Share Posted July 1, 2016 Why is it so important that you feel you need to recruit others into this non-belief of yours. I believe for my own personal reasons, and would continue to do so even if nine tenths of the world should reject Him. And trust me, even my worst enemies in the past would never have accused me of being stupid. However, I don't like talking about God in a way to just fill up a conversation. For me that serves no point. And I don't go around peddling Bibles on a street corner. I am usually very quiet about such things. And I don't subscribe to any orthodoxy, or attend little church gatherings. Never have, and just don't care to. But I do believe in the New Testament and of what Jesus had said. But that's all I care to discuss about this with anyone else as I've said prior, for just the sake of conversation. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodworker Posted July 1, 2016 Share Posted July 1, 2016 5 minutes ago, MrBox said: Ok. ... I make it a bit more easy for you. ... Just have a look to this qoute of A. Einstein: So. It is not about the facts. It's about what you want to believe. For me, this also explains very well why you and some others still believe in Trump. ... It has nothing to do with facts. ... Trump is just the center of your belief system that you dislike to give up, Even when all facts show that he noting more than a big bad joke. No asshole, for me the facts do not dispute God. So don't go turning this into some kind of a winning hand for you, when you don't know a fucking thing about Trump. And why do you keep trying to sell us that bag of shit that you seem to be carrying around with you all the time. Hell, This isn't even your own fucking country! Just concern yourself with that of your own deteriorating country, and lets us worry about our own over here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timewarp Posted July 1, 2016 Share Posted July 1, 2016 I am not sure who you are talking to but I was simply engaging in conversation. I don't expect anyone to believe of not believe based on what I say or don't say. Everyone has to find their own truth. I am in fact very careful not to post on social media things that belittle someone else's faith. Having said that, I have no problem expressing my own thoughts. The only caveat to that is when I see people trying to pervert our secular Republic by trying to make or interpret our laws based on religious principals. Then I bark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodworker Posted July 1, 2016 Share Posted July 1, 2016 Now I've been up all night. And I don't know what time it is for you there in the Alpine valley, but I have got to finally give sleep another try soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodworker Posted July 1, 2016 Share Posted July 1, 2016 1 minute ago, Timewarp said: I am not sure who you are talking to but I was simply engaging in conversation. I don't expect anyone to believe of not believe based on what I say or don't say. Everyone has to find their own truth. I am in fact very careful not to post on social media things that belittle someone else's faith. Having said that, I have no problem expressing my own thoughts. The only caveat to that is when I see people trying to pervert our secular Republic by trying to make or interpret our laws based on religious principals. Then I bark. I was talking to that empty box. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrBox Posted July 1, 2016 Share Posted July 1, 2016 3 minutes ago, woodworker said: No asshole, for me the facts do not dispute God. So don't go turning this into some kind of a winning hand for you, when you don't know a fucking thing about Trump. Why don't you just stop trying to sell us that bag of shit that you seem to keep carrying around with you. This isn't even your own fucking country! I this world, we are all related now. ... There is no way that Trump can avoid the islam and there is no way for me to avoid trump as president. ... He would have an infuence far beyond the borders of the U.S.A. I also like to protect the freedom of the people which would suffer under the leadership of Trump. He is nothing more that a dangerous demagogue. BTW, My influence is small, but every opinion counts. .. So. If i can convince at least one (for sure not you), it would be worth the effort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodworker Posted July 1, 2016 Share Posted July 1, 2016 Oh brother! I think Box must have learned a new word, "demagogue". He's mentioned it quite a few times concerning that of Donald Trump recently. Please tell him that I'm not buying what he is selling. And to try not to concern himself with our own politics way over here in our own country. Somehow he isn't listening to me. Now I've got to go,.. My eyes are tired and starting to burn. But, unless I get smarter over night, tomorrow is another day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ww_watcher Posted July 1, 2016 Share Posted July 1, 2016 17 hours ago, MrBox said: This video gives a good overview of the current situation and makes it even more clear to me how important this topic is. ... But, there is still no reason to condemn the islam in general, because the video also shows that the wide majority of muslims do not agree with the ideas of ISIS (even if she forget to mention this). We need to treat these muslims with the same respect that we would provide to any other not criminal person. We have a "war" against terrorists, but there is no war against muslims! People like Trump, have no real solution for the problem. ... They just use the fear to there advantage. If he would deport all muslims out of the U.S., you would loss all your humanity and decency. ... It would be a disaster for the cornerstones of western society and it would be the start of an worldwide religion war. I hope, you know that war should always be the last attempt to solve a conflict. As long as there are other solution posible, we need to prefer them. ... One approach is a better cooperation. We need to spend much more effort in teaching western values to young muslim. Higher education reduces the probability for radicalization extremely (regardless of religion). We also need to provide a chance for real integration of immigrants. Mr Box. If an organization like ISIS formed in the US it would not be tolerated for long and we would squash it or render it impotent as we have the KKK. We didn't run away to another country and rely on others to do our dirty work for us. Mrs. Raza didn't mention that most Muslims don't agree with ISIS because very likely she considers it irrelevant. ISIS is causing death and destruction on a global scale (OK, only the western part of the globe) and they are using Islam as their basis for their jihad and the Muslim populous is doing little or nothing about it. They are fleeing here and to Europe and nowhere else. The Jihadi Terrorists are hiding among them as they flee here because the "non-violent" Muslims won't do or say anything about it. If we are to only fight the terrorists how are we to tell the difference between the nice peace-nicks and the violent peace-nicks. It would be easier if the nice Muslims would point out the bad guys among them and do something about it. Until they take part of the onus, of this problem, on their own shoulders the whole Muslim community is going to be suspect. I can't say what Trump's actual plans are for this (and I am willing to bet neither do you) but I can tell you that the other candidates haven't even begun to deal with the threat. They are still trying to find a political correct name for a deadly problem or redirecting the blame to an inanimate object; and more than that they are going to make the problem even worse by accelerating the migration of these folks here (as is Hilary Clinton's plan) and in Europe because they are, at the moment, powerless to stop it and things are getting worse unbelievable fast. We already have pockets of Muslims here in the US who are trying to establish Sharia Law to the exclusion of the laws of the land. I believe the same thing is even worse where you live. The war has already started and they are carrying it here. This last part you brought up really bothers me. Do you not realize that they are and have been fully aware of our western values? The ones who fully integrated themselves into our society knew them just as long as the ones who won't. That is what they want to destroy and replace with their own. Many of our best values have been around for nearly 1000 years. How much more time do they need? Where do you think many of the radicalized converts come from? Have you not heard the British accents from some of the ones who decapitated the hostages on video. Where do you think the educated among them come from; they don't have any Universities of their own because they haven't bothered to build them. They have the money but not the motivation to do so. They can take it from us. We will gladly share with them - and do...but never the other way around. They have always been happy to take advantage of what we have to offer. Some integrate well and become contributing members of society, but others have taken what we have offered and used it against us. No other society, that I can think of, has ever done that; especially one old as the present followers of Islam. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ww_watcher Posted July 1, 2016 Share Posted July 1, 2016 BOYS! Stop that madness! I won't take sides in this adolescent squabble and I didn't join this discussion to watch a spitting match between adults. I set an example of no name calling and/or belittling anyone's viewpoint ...at least not by insult. I expect the same behavior from each of you. I may not agree with your viewpoint, but I also may not always agree with those who think they see things as I do. I lose my respect for those who spit their ideologies at another, regardless of which side of the fence they sit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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