Barry Elephant Posted June 19, 2016 Posted June 19, 2016 2 hours ago, BBsq69 said: I thought you might be from the UK. in which case you cannot have missed the adverts, not that you should really need to see them. Looking surreptitiously might appear more dishonest but indicative that you do not trust a person but to do it in front of their face means you are saying to them "I DO NOT TRUST YOU". with the purpose of the very least upsetting that person. Sneaking in somebody's room and reading their diary is self-evidently wrong but who would be so crass as to take the diary and read it out in front of the author. Maybe you don't see the difference. Paul does play control games - I'm not saying she doesn't play her own games although far less frequently than she did and of course she controls her money - even at one stage giving her a walkie-talkie which she was clearly annoyed by and this was far from the first time he has shown his jealously and looked through her phone. If someone lends you their phone, would you look through their messages - bit of a betrayal of trust if you do. Obviously we have all been suspicious and jealous in relationships. It is natural, but lines should be drawn. For instance how many relationships would survive surveillance by a private detective. "I had you investigated and I am glad to say found nothing ... what's the matter, babe?" There are as you say shades of grey, but Paul has form. Mind you if my girlfriend suggested we go on RLC ... actually probably I wouldn't mind (and it would mean my GF was probably quite hot) but I suspect I'd be in a very small minority ... so we have Paul to thank for something and it must be stressful sometimes. I think that I may have missed the advertising, I tend to avoid commercial environments, but don't t think that impairs my understanding. I don't think the bullying issue depends on the presence or otherwise of "crassness." If someone is saying I do not trust you, then it doesn't matter how it is said, and a lack of trust doesn't equate with bullying either. Some distrust can be found in many healthy relationships. And I didn't mention sneak reading a diary. You did, a couple of times. That is not what I was talking about 1
jimbo4 Posted June 19, 2016 Posted June 19, 2016 1 hour ago, Barry Elephant said: I think that I may have missed the advertising, I tend to avoid commercial environments, but don't t think that impairs my understanding. I don't think the bullying issue depends on the presence or otherwise of "crassness." If someone is saying I do not trust you, then it doesn't matter how it is said, and a lack of trust doesn't equate with bullying either. Some distrust can be found in many healthy relationships. And I didn't mention sneak reading a diary. You did, a couple of times. That is not what I was talking about Just got to say this BB and Barry, I am thoroughly enjoying your literal fencing on this matter.......nice to see two intelligent people putting their points of view over in such a civilised manner. Toodles! 2
BBsq69 Posted June 19, 2016 Posted June 19, 2016 4 hours ago, Barry Elephant said: I think that I may have missed the advertising, I tend to avoid commercial environments, but don't t think that impairs my understanding. I don't think the bullying issue depends on the presence or otherwise of "crassness." If someone is saying I do not trust you, then it doesn't matter how it is said, and a lack of trust doesn't equate with bullying either. Some distrust can be found in many healthy relationships. And I didn't mention sneak reading a diary. You did, a couple of times. That is not what I was talking about First of all I mentioned the diary because phones are often regarded as being on a similar personal level, because people understand them better. Mobiles can contain not only a record of calls, a record of personal pictures, a history of private text message. If you have a diary you may want to show someone ane entry or a picture you have put in it but you do not expect anyone to flip through the pages without permission. People understand that about diaries, but often people do not get the nature of mobile phones. Paul had phone for several minutes yesterday and held her off while she repeatedly asked him to give it her back and was becoming increasingly more desperate - hence the lunge that led to her accident. Where we differ is that the point of bullying is that you are doing something somebody does not like and when they ask you to stop, you just keep doing it because you are in a position of power. So trust is not really the issue here it is the way Paul has gone about it on this occasion.If he merely says that he does not trust her, it is not nice for her to hear but she can deal with it unless he is persistent and starts name calling e.g. starting the day of with "Good morning, whore."without intending it as a joke. Now you most have noticed several occasions on which she has got dressed to go out particularly when she was attending her course, he has told her to change. Of course she may take his advice seriously but it does depend on how he gives it and for that I would probably need to have an exact translation as my Russian, despite my 'O' level, is limited. It is not really important to my argument what exactly happens, but again this is not really serious unless it is thing taht is done often. There is a difference between "Don't you think that's a bit slutty?" and "I've told you before not to dress like a slut." although not if he keeps saying the former. Anyway I'm drifting from the point. The difference between him taking her phone and looking through it unwitnessed is that she cannot feel uncomfortable about it if she does not about it so she cannot be being bullied. Even if he mentions it afterwards because he's likely to say that "I happened to see ... on your phone." She might not believe it was an accident but might not want to call him on it. That he takes her phone as he did on this occasion and starts looking through it with her protesting and pleading with him constantly to stop - every other word out her mouth during this time was "Please" - and her being clearly uncomfortable (if I said distressed maybe that is me going a step too far) with him blocking her physically by holding her hand back for several minutes until she was forced to step her attempts at retrieval, is very obvious bullying. It is designed to assert his power over her and to show that if it comes to her feelings of vulnerability and his feelings of suspicion and jealousy, there is only one winner. It's like him opening her private letters, which may contain criticisms of him by a friend, and him reading them out to her demanding to know what the writer means. If he looks through them when she is not there, it is bad behaviour, but does not impact on her unless she knows and even then she has time to compose her thoughts unless he is suddenly open about it. BTW She has just come back in a foul mood and there have no gone out to the balcony to continue the discussion/row. After a few minutes he managed to calm her down. Whether she was angry with him or something that happened while she was out is difficult to tell but certainly at the start she alternated between blanking him and staring at him so maybe he said the wrong thing at some point which as a male, i know is easily done. Very tame compared to some of the rants she has been on before which he does normally deal with pretty well.
Barry Elephant Posted June 19, 2016 Posted June 19, 2016 They are a couple having a fight. Each will deploy all of the weapons they have at their disposal, and it's fascinating. If you want to call some of that bullying and some of it not, then rock on mate. I see shades where you seem to be looking for lines. We may have to agree to differ on that. 3
corboblanc Posted June 19, 2016 Posted June 19, 2016 Il y a 16 heures, Barry Elephant a dit : Pas sûr que je comprends ce que vous dites. Je ne comprends pas "évidemment des gens ne regardent subrepticement". Est-ce que l'intimidation ou non, maintenant? Je crois qu'il ya un élément de dire «je contrôle» dans le téléphone de lecture que je ressens. Je pense que ce tout à fait clair. Non, je ne lis pas son journal. Il n'y a pas une seule et je ne serais pas s'il y avait. Et je ne lis son téléphone ou e-mails. Voilà comment il est. Je ne suis pas malheureux. Je suis au Royaume-Uni, et je crois que je peux percevoir ce qui est et ne considère l'intimidation. Je suis pas sûr que les choses sont aussi claires que vous suggérez. Je pense qu'il est juste une question de garder les choses en proportion, et se rendre compte que si quelqu'un veut lire mon spam et Witterings d'affaires, puis alors? Sauf si bien sûr il y a infidélité, qui serait exposée par elle, lorsque que tout devient plus difficile, et qui est un autre type de jeu de contrôle, et un autre type d'intimidation. Parfois, dans les relations des gens posture à l'infidélité qui rend leur partenaire précaire. J'appelle cela injuste, vous pouvez dire l'intimidation ,, et il conduit souvent à des comportements comme le téléphone-lecture, et pire encore. Les gens ne sont pas toujours agréable d'un autre. Les gens n'agissent pas toujours comme nous pensons qu'ils devraient. Les gens exercent un contrôle sur l'autre et leur relation scénario de diverses manières. Il n'y a pas d'absolu de bien et le mal quand cela se produit, en particulier dans une relation. Appelez l'intimidation, appelez-le contrôle, nous le faisons tous à un certain stade d'une relation. Il y a aussi beaucoup le manque de confiance au cœur de nombreuses relations. Il y a beaucoup de choses à parler dans la relation leora-paul, mais la plupart sont dans les tons de gris. absolument d'accord avec ce que vous dites.....
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