Current Events in the News (commentary) Split #2

[Ozi]

I often see people of right wing ilk posting about the American flag. They talk about how people fought and died for the values that this flag represents. I think that most citizens of the United States believe that the flag stands for the high moral ground. I am curious when you think it is that a transformation took place that would  allow genocide to be tolerated within that set of values.

The real frustration of dealing with people of 'your ilk' is that even when presented with undeniable facts, the choice is to ignore them and continue with the fantasy world.

A good example is your claim that American taxpayers only contribute about $60 a year to fund your enormous welfare costs. That $230 million that Australia just donated to the so called Syrian refugee crisis has cost me about $38 and that's just a one of expense. About 48% of families in Australia with a taxable income actually pay less tax than they receive in various welfare payments. I'm not saying that some of those payments aren't justified but it means 52% of working families carry 100% of the burden.

You talk of genocide. Do you not understand what is happening in the world today? Do you not listen to or read more than the sanitized news? Birth rates of people indigenous to European countries are below sustainment levels for those societies, yet birth rates overall are up. How? Refugees, muslims, breeding at twice the rate of their host countries. 

You talk of genocide. What do you think Islam is about? This is not some fictional story line. Cultures all over the world are changing because of the impact muslims have on society. If you claim to not have experienced it in some way, you really are delusional. Read the Quran, I am. If this were fictional, it would be a sci-fi and Islam would be The Borg, assimilate or die.

No conspiracy all the way up to our government leaders? Look at Australia right now. Donating $230 million towards the Syrian refugees. Committed to support the bombing of ISIS in Syria. BUT will not lift one finger, drop one bomb, fire one bullet at Assad's troops. Yet Assad's regime is blamed for the current refugee crisis, which was happening long before ISIS. He is responsible for the deaths of 250,000 Syrians. Not only no support for the Kurds, who are probably Syria's and Iraq's best hope in beating ISIS, but we turn a blind eye to what the Turks are doing.

I have no illusions about what caused some of the problems in the middle east and I agree we made two mistakes. We interfered in local politics, thinking we could control them, in hindsight big mistake. But when things turned pear shaped and we ended up invading, we didn't finish the job, major mistake.

We are well beyond the blame game, totally irrelevant now. Now we need to be in survival mode because if we don't start taking some serious steps to protect our society and way of life, we will lose it.

[Maturin]

I often see people of right wing ilk posting about the American flag. They talk about how people fought and died for the values that this flag represents. I think that most citizens of the United States believe that the flag stands for the high moral ground. I am curious when you think it is that a transformation took place that would  allow genocide to be tolerated within that set of values.

Nailed it Timewarp.

Basically their solution is to out-atrocity the "bad people" in every situation because the world is quite clearly black and white to them. It makes it easier to understand if everyone is either a good guy or an evil guy.

If you've read into how the world works and have even the slightest shred of moral decency then you're labelled as a socialist cockroach, weak or unpatriotic and all the rest.  When in fact it's the educated people who are in the minority and they are the brave ones who call for restraint, compassion and moral authority, as all around them the sheep who've bought the fear and lies of the corporatocracy are bleeting for ultra-violence and final solutions.

"Let them drown! Turn the desert into radioactive glass! Send some ebola patients over there! (that was actually an idea on CC), why? Because we're civilized!"

Please...

[Timewarp]

Actually, my question was directed at those suggesting genocide. Specifically how they felt that such suggestions were consistent with the values espoused by the United States. I think we have both acknowledged that engaging on specific political issues would be a waste of time. I reserve those discussions for broader audience on social media.

[Ozi]

Actually, my question was directed at those suggesting genocide. Specifically how they felt that such suggestions were consistent with the values espoused by the United States. I think we have both acknowledged that engaging on specific political issues would be a waste of time. I reserve those discussions for broader audience on social media.

Good answer, you should go into politics, a whole paragraph without having to provide anything factual.

[Timewarp]

Perhaps if you feel very strongly about your views, you too should take them to broader social media rather than have you ideas bolstered by and handful of kindred souls here.

[Ozi]

Perhaps if you feel very strongly about your views, you too should take them to broader social media rather than have you ideas bolstered by and handful of kindred souls here.

As I said, you should go into politics. I see you have a running mate to go with you.

As for strong views, I do more than share my thoughts on social media, I am doing something about it.

[Timewarp]

I hope that wherever you contribute on social media there are a broad range of opinions. If you confine yourself to people of similar beliefs you can't learn anything or in my way of thinking form informed opinions. Healthy constructive debate has in the past been a hallmark of this Democratic Republic. In the old days, Congressman would debate voraciously all day and then go to dinner together as friends.

These are the people I seek out on social media. People with constructive ideas that are different than mine as I might learn from them.

I have very much enjoyed this board in my time here so far. As a result, this is going to be my last post or response on these types of topics. It's clear that I only provide an irritant here to those who want to commiserate their similar views on the world. It is enjoyable sharing thoughts and information about the various apartments and in the future I intend to confine myself to those areas.

[Ozi]

"Healthy constructive debate has in the past been a hallmark of this Democratic Republic. In the old days, Congressman would debate voraciously all day and then go to dinner together as friends."

The old days are gone, it's time for action, there's been enough talk already. While we've been talking, our enemies have been preparing. Actually I'll correct that, while our enemies have kept us talking, their allies have been preparing.

As for nuking the middle east, no I don't agree with it. When we first invade, maybe, but now it's too late 'cos we've let too many escape.

Good response by the way, no facts to dispute again.

[ww_watcher]

Just when you thought you didn't know what the heck is going on in the world I hit you with this:

http://www.wnd.com/2015/08/military-experts-iran-already-has-nuclear-weapons/

I found that if I want to know things about an issue without the gateway pundits mucking it up, I ask the un-PC questions such as, "Has China and North Korea been helping Iran further its nuclear weapons program?" The above link was one of many that showed up which were not linked to the TV media. Another question was, "Why was Ambassador Stevens assassinated?" Everyone thinks he was just killed in an attack by an "extremist muslim" group. Or that he had found the missing $8B dollars that had been paid to Obama's half brother to broker an arms deal to several North African militant groups, such as Boko Haram. He was actually going to blow the whistle on the Bush-Clinton Cartel concerning the movement of nuclear weapons from Libya, where they were being kept after being moved from Iraq during Bush's hunt for WMD's, to Syria. From there, fissionable materials would be moved into Iran where they would be out of touch for us.

When I asked the question, "Why was Vince Foster murdered?" I found out that the Clinton's "The Children's Defense Fund" slush fund was established during Reagan's administration as a slush fund for Bill and Hillary's CIA activities. Y'all may have known that but I didn't.

When Bill Clinton helped Wen Ho Lee steal our nuclear warhead secrets back in '95 he also helped them steal the most comprehensive map of the satellites, both private and military, in the world. Up to that point we would only lend it and we were the only allowed to retrieve it. Until China deliberately blew up one of their satellite launches over the Gobi and refused to allow us to retrieve the black box map.

I welcome arguments.

[Linked]

I was going to stay out of this part of this conversation, but because I am someone who greatly loves his country, fuck it.  My flag represents freedom; freedom of expression, freedom to live your life to what you see fit, freedom to be able to chose your religion, freedom to elect who you want to represent you in this great Republic.  I will seek out and destroy all who threaten that.  You talk of genocide?  what about the 100's of thousands of people muzzie's have killed since they became a religion (more or less a cult).  They come to my country and try to change our laws because they want to kill their daughters for having a boyfriend, they want to beat their wives for waving at someone, they want to kill me because I am Christian, they want to have honor killings here in the U.S. I say fuck them and their child molesting false prophet.  I say fuck them.  If they were to come here and abide by our laws, let people live how they see fit, not try to change my country because we aren't barbaric enough for them, I wouldn't mind them living along side us.  If they were to let Israelis live in peace, I wouldn't mind them

Yesterday the supreme iotola of Iran said that Israel would not exist in 25 years because they would be able to drop the bomb on them.  How do you feel about that Timewarp.

And yes Leave my Flag out of this.

[Ozi]

In memory of the 2,977 victims killed in the September 11 attacks, in particular the 411 emergency workers who responded to the World Trade Center-

-343 firefighters (including a chaplain, two paramedics, and a fire marshal) of the New York City Fire  Department (FDNY);

-37 police officers of the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey Police Department (PAPD);

-23 police officers of the New York City Police Department (NYPD); and

-8 emergency medical technicians and paramedics from private emergency medical services

[Ozi]

So the truth is coming out.

A woman on the same boat as Alan Kurdi says the boy's father is a people smuggler who begged her not to dob him in. Zainab Abbas said Abdullah Kurdi had lied to the world after the image of his dead three-year-old son on a Turkish beach sparked a global outpouring of support for Syrian refugees.

"Yes, it was Abdullah Kurdi driving the boat," Ms Abbas told Network Ten through her cousin Lara Tahseen on Friday. Ms Abbas also lost two children when the boat capsized shortly after leaving Bodrum for the Greek islands.

After the tragedy, Mr Kurdi told the media he took over steering the boat after the captain panicked and jumped ship. Aylan Kurdi appeared in newspapers around the world, prompting sympathy and outrage.

But Ms Abbas said Mr Kurdi was the driver of the boat, and the man she paid to book her passage told her it would be safe because the driver was taking his wife and two children.