The NFL and the National Anthem

[Ridgerunner]

When the Rams were in St.Louis I had season tickets.I use to really enjoy NFL football,but now I don't get much enjoyment from watching the Cryps and Bloods play against each other every week.

[Thestarider]

17 minutes ago, mikeusa said:

The 1968 Olympics Black Power salute was a political demonstration conducted by African-American athletes Tommie Smith and John Carlos during their medal ceremony at the 1968 Summer Olympics in the Olympic Stadium in Mexico City. After having won gold and bronze medals respectively in the 200 meter running event, they turned on the podium to face their flags, and to hear the American national anthem, "The Star-Spangled Banner". Each athlete raised a black-gloved fist, and kept them raised until the anthem had finished. In addition, Smith, Carlos, and Australian silver medalist Peter Norman all wore human rights badges on their jackets. In his autobiography, Silent Gesture, Smith stated that the gesture was not a "Black Power" salute, but a "human rights salute". The event is regarded as one of the most overtly political statements in the history of the modern Olympic Games   you mean this here ?

No I am talking about Black Panther party movement, that the raised black gloved fist came from, and of which the Olympic athletes in 68 games emulated on the podium while the playing of the national anthem.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Panther_Party

and honestly Mike if anyone has the right feel oppressed it is of course women

Black Americans got the right to vote when the Republicans passed the 15th Amendment. It was ratified on February 3, 1870 and was the 3rd of the Reconstruction amendments.

Although women were granted the right to vote in 1920, women did not turn out to the polls in the same numbers as men until 1980.

[mikeusa]

3 minutes ago, Thestarider said:

No I am talking about Black Panther party movement, that the raised black gloved fist came from, and of which the Olympic athletes in 68 games emulated on the podium while the playing of the national anthem.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Panther_Party

 

oh my bad sorry I misunderstood, 

[mikeusa]

 

 

The controversy over the NFL and the National Anthem continues, with players kneeling while the White House fumes.

But the question is: Are players - or anyone else not standing for the National Anthem - breaking the law?

No, at least according to the U.S. Code.

The code contains a list of Star-Spangled Banner etiquette. It says:

Conduct during a rendition of the national anthem when the flag is displayed:

(A) individuals in uniform should give the military salute at the first note of the anthem and maintain that position until the last note;

(B) members of the Armed Forces and veterans who are present but not in uniform may render the military salute in the manner provided for individuals in uniform; and

(C) all other persons present should face the flag and stand at attention with their right hand over the heart, and men not in uniform, if applicable, should remove their headdress with their right hand and hold it at the left shoulder, the hand being over the heart; and

(2) when the flag is not displayed, all present should face toward the music and act in the same manner they would if the flag were displayed.

The key word here is "should," according to legal experts, which stops short of "shall" or "must."

 

Edited September 28, 2017 by mikeusa

[mikeusa]

http://www.ajc.com/news/national/colin-kaepernick-breaking-the-law-not-standing-for-the-national-anthem/cRjlkGqATbYZT3S3AkzJGK/

[mikeusa]

http://www.ajc.com/news/national/bruce-maxwell-first-mlb-player-kneel-during-national-anthem/IoB4Yd6HWC97sJGOr1XFpO/

[mikeusa]

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2735201-as-bruce-maxwell-on-kneeling-during-anthem-im-going-to-continue-to-do-it

 

http://www.sportingnews.com/mlb/news/bruce-maxwell-standing-ovation-kneeling-national-anthem-oakland-athletics/1akt6qr8ezce01c1v8904c3mqr

[mikeusa]

A Standing while “The Star-Spangled Banner” is played is customary, but there is no mandate to stand. The city of Baltimore — where the song was composed to commemorate a battle victory — passed a law 100 years ago that required musicians to stand for the song, but it didn’t indicate what the audience could (or could not) do. In 1931, President Herbert Hoover signed a law that made “The Star Spangled Banner” our official national anthem.

If someone kneels, or takes some other posture when the national anthem is played, it is part of our right to freedom of expression. There is, however, a federal statute (36 U.S. Code Section 301) that sets forth that individuals in uniform, members of the armed forces and veterans, as well as all other persons present, “should face the flag and stand at attention” (with various salutes suggested) when the national anthem is being played and the flag is present.    @Thestarider

[mikeusa]

 

Faced with the prospect of another wave of sideline demonstrations at N.F.L. games this weekend, the league’s owners and players are wrestling with how to plot a path forward from one of the most divisive weekends it has seen.

As they do so, they are weighing the players’ desire to rebuff criticism from President Trump and to kneel or lock arms during the national anthem to raise awareness of social injustice, while accommodating fans who would prefer football to just be about football.

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Even as the president continues to fire almost daily barbs, league officials and a group of players met this week to discuss how to proceed. At least one team, the Denver Broncos, announced its players would stand during the anthem while several players on other teams expressed the desire to kneel or said they were discussing what to do. On Thursday night, players from the Green Bay Packers and Chicago Bears locked arms on their respective sidelines during the national anthem before their game in Green Bay, and asked fans to do the same.

The meeting this week at league headquarters included Commissioner Roger Goodell, several prominent owners and about a half-dozen players. No concrete measures came from the meeting, and the league did not explicitly try to put a stop to the protests, even though one player who attended said he felt it was the owners’ desire that all players stand for the anthem.

The issue has pushed the N.F.L. into an unusual dilemma of balancing respect for the wishes of its players, who often are critical of the owners on issues of health and labor agreements, while taking into account some signs of a backlash among many fans.

It is clear from interviews with N.F.L. officials and more than a dozen teams that owners and team executives would prefer that the protests end, both for personal reasons and because it risks inflaming the president, who has been a friend and ally of many of the owners, and alienating fans and sponsors. But they are also wary of appearing heavy handed and upsetting the image of unity that the league sought to project last weekend.

What has emerged in meetings across the league this week — from locker rooms to N.F.L. headquarters — is a strategy of not pushing back at an unpredictable president. Instead, the players, with input from team officials, are seeking to shape a message that shows their desire to stand together while still addressing the original intent of the protests: raising awareness of police brutality against African Americans and racism in general.

“The players have a right to speak their minds, but on the other hand, it can make it difficult because there isn’t anyone in America who doesn’t want to honor America,” Arthur Blank, the owner of the Atlanta Falcons, said in an interview. “You talk to other owners and the commissioner, they feel the same way, they support the players.”

But in a league with 32 teams, 2,000 players and a wide range of political views in the locker room and owners’ suites, finding consensus has been difficult as myriad conversations have taken place throughout the league.

In Charlotte, several players visited the house of Jerry Richardson, the team owner, to express their frustration with what they perceived to be restrictions on their ability to speak on social issues. In Kansas City, Chiefs wide receiver Chris Conley said that teammates respectfully told him they disagreed with his decision to kneel during the anthem last Sunday. The Steelers are still dealing with the fallout from their decision to stay indoors when the anthem was played last weekend; the starting quarterback, Ben Roethlisberger, later said he regretted not appearing on the sideline for the anthem.

And on a personal level, Delanie Walker, a tight end for the Tennesee Titans, wrote in a post on Instagram that he and his family had received death threats since he spoke in support of the anthem protests. “The racist and violent words directed at me and my son only serve as another reminder that our country remains divided and full of hateful rhetoric,” he wrote.

 

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From left, Adrian Amos, DeAndre Houston-Carson, Deon Bush and Josh Bellamy of the Chicago Bears knelt on the field during the national anthem before Thursday night’s game against the Green Bay Packers.

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1/3 SLIDES © Benny Sieu/USA Today Sports, via Reuters

From left, Adrian Amos, DeAndre Houston-Carson, Deon Bush and Josh Bellamy of the Chicago Bears knelt on the field during the national anthem before Thursday night’s game against the Green Bay Packers.

2/3 SLIDES © Bob Leverone/Associated Press

Chase Daniel, a quarterback for the New Orleans Saints, stood with his hand over his heart as the anthem played before a game against the Carolina Panthers on Sunday, while many of his teammates sat on the bench.

3/3 SLIDES © David Goldman/Associated Press

N.F.L. Commissioner Roger Goodell, left, with Arthur Blank, the owner of the Atlanta Falcons, before a game at Mercedes-Benz Stadium earlier this month.

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At the same time, several owners, including Blank and Shahid Khan of the Jacksonville Jaguars, have said they will not be present on the sidelines for the anthem in the future. Some teams, like the Broncos, have sought to deflect questions by quickly deciding quickly what to do on the coming game day. The Packers, which had three players sit in recent weeks, had said Tuesday they would only lock arms as a team on Thursday.

Goodell and his advisers have looked to soothe sponsors’ concerns, speaking to them from league headquarters in Manhattan. Though Nike and other companies have issued statements in support of the players’ right to protest, DirectTV, which sells the Sunday Ticket package of every N.F.L. game, reportedly will allow fans to receive refunds if they cite the anthem protests as a reason.

The league is also monitoring fan reaction, especially on social media, where videos have surfaced showing people burning N.F.L. jerseys. Nearly every team has been fielding hundreds, and sometimes thousands, of calls from fans, most of them opposed to the protests. Some have even turned in their season tickets.

“We understand there is anger out there,” Joe Lockhart, a league spokesman, said. “We understand some of it is based on political agendas, but some of our fans’ anger is based on their own principles. We get that and we understand that.”

In some ways, the N.F.L. can afford to wait and see what happens. With tens of millions of viewers each week watching games on networks that have long-term, multibillion dollar rights deals with the N.F.L., sponsors are hesitant to cut ties over a single issue, even one this volatile. On average, about 70 percent of a team’s revenue comes from these television and sponsorship deals, which ensures that every team turns a profit.

Still, the league wants the focus to remain on the field, something President Trump is eager to exploit. On Wednesday, he needled the league again, saying that if N.F.L. did not crack down on the protesters, its business “is going to hell.” On Thursday, he said the owners were “afraid of their players.”

Though Jerry Jones, the Dallas Cowboys owner, spoke to the president, league executives said they have not reached out to the White House. For days, Lockhart, the league spokesman, has not responded directly to Mr. Trump’s comments, though on Thursday he did call the president’s statement that the owners were afraid of their players “inaccurate.” One league adviser compared the N.F.L.’s approach to the strategy of letting a boxer punch himself out.

“When he thinks he’s winning, he doubles down and doubles down, and there are very few entities that have the skill, desire and thick skin to take it,” the advisor, who was not authorized to speak for the league, said of the president. “So it’s a war of attrition.”

The league and its owners are also afraid that fighting the president will distract their players, who are already spending hours discussing how or whether to protest, from preparing for games or working out.

“While we feel like we’re a political sideshow, we still have to win football games,” one team adviser said.

Still, teams are trying to let the players come to an agreement themselves. Many players who knelt last weekend say they have made their point and are ready to resume standing for the anthem. Those who were previously vocal about social activism are unlikely to stop, because they do not want President Trump to claim victory.

Then there are the Seattle Seahawks, in their own category. More than any other team, they have been at the vanguard of social activism, with three of their best players — Doug Baldwin, Michael Bennett and Richard Sherman — using their platforms to condemn racial injustice and police brutality.

After vigorous and emotional debate last Saturday, the Seahawks resolved to stay in their locker room while the anthem was played before their game the next day at Tennessee. Not wanting to be left on the field alone, the Titans also stayed inside.

The anger over the protests came directly to the Seahawks’ front door on Tuesday when a small group of military veterans assembled outside the team’s practice facility in Renton, Wash. Bennett stopped to talk to them, and a woman who lives nearby witnessed the interaction, and wrote about it on Facebook.

“I was just driving and I saw protesters, and for me, it was like, it could be dangerous to walk in front of people because you never know what people are thinking,” Bennett said Thursday. “For me, you just have to believe that people are good.”

If the intent last week was to make a statement — to show that they would not be bullied by President Trump, as Sherman said — then the Seahawks this week are grappling with how to proceed Sunday, when they play the Indianapolis Colts at CenturyLink Field in Seattle. Baldwin said they have had brief conversations this week in the locker room but have yet to discuss the matter as a team. Their coach, Pete Carroll, said he was confident in his players’ ability to compartmentalize, but there is still plenty of time before kickoff to continue debating.

“There’s still more to unpack,” Baldwin said in an interview at Seahawks headquarters. “But maybe it’s easier for us because we’ve had practice at unpacking those things and maybe the conversations would go more smoothly. It’s to be seen.”

[happyone]

Mike I did not read all of your posts regarding standing while the National Anthem is played in the NFL

there is not rule that says they should-but read this policy from the NFL

Unfortunately they will not enforce their own policies--and that is a shame 

[Amy3]

On 9/27/2017 at 8:46 PM, mikeusa said:

Kneeling is a basic human position where one or both knees touch the ground. It is used as a resting position, during childbirth and as an expression of reverence and submission. Also often tied with the phrase "taking a knee" which is a sign of compassion as well as honoring the fallen or injured.    it look like the NFL players are showing respect to the fallen and the injured by kneeling but its being miss read  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kneeling

The only reason why they started “taking the knee” is because they knew that it’s would serve as cover for their actions. Remember the original stance was sitting on the bench ingnoring the anthem entirely. The protest style is evolving for a reason. That is, it is evolving as a means to disrespect this nation while giving the appearance of respect. That’s called a lie, whether they sit, they kneel, they lock arms, they refuse to even show up on the field, what have you. Anything short of standing at attention in silence is not acceptable behavior during this ceremony. Since this event is happening while the players are at work (on the field) they are expected to be respectful to the event whether they agree with it or not. Think of it like this. Pretend you’re invited to a wedding and there is a dance where everyone joins in. During the dance they play a song that is awful and you don’t like it. What do you do at the end of the dance? Do you take a knee? That is, do you make an ugly race and bitch about the song choice? No, you don’t, you stand there and smile and you clap along with everyone else. Why? Cause it’s not your wedding, it’s not your place to complain or express your grievances. It’s the same thing on the football field. This is not their place to protest anything. Prior to this, the NFL restricted any sort of honoring or protesting because they knew it would create dire consequences. For some reason, Roger Goddell forgot those reasons and caved. Now, the consequences will make their appearance. The NFL fucked up big time!

[happyone]

And IMHO it is the same at these so called awards ceremonies for the stars, celebrities, etc.  The Oscars, the Grammys , the NFL and all the others is

no place to be political--It is an award show and a sports show, not a political show.  These people make enough money that they can buy their own damn show

to protest on TV , if that is what they want to do.