Discussion: 2019 Novel Coronavirus (2019-nCoV) #1

[AntEater]

12 hours ago, StarLight28 said:

Aktuell sind in den USA 124.464 Corona infiziert. Allein in NY 672 Tote. Doppelt soviel wie in Deutschland mit 82 Million Einwohner.

Die USA hat 50 Bundesstaaten. Wie viel US-Tote total - Schweigen. Gute Besserung USA.

You're comparing apples and oranges. Also it's not a competition, everyone is doing their best for their people, how can you hate on that?

[AntEater]

Vietnam which borders China and has a population of 95 million has only had about 134 infections and 0 dead. A friend in Vietnam told me that business is as usual and although they have taken a few precautions they have not had to do anything as extreme as what is going on in the West. He said the only thing they've done differently is have people wear masks. 

How Vietnam is winning its 'war' on coronavirus

WWW.DW.COM

---

A densely populated neighbor of China, Vietnam has a weak health care system and a low budget for combating the coronavirus. So how has it managed to keep its COVID-19 infection rate so low?

 

[happyone]

 

12 hours ago, StarLight28 said:

124,464 corona are currently infected in the United States. 672 dead in NY alone. Twice as much as in Germany with 82 million inhabitants.

The United States has 50 states. How much total US deaths - silence. Get well soon USA.

This is the current data--pay close attention to the deaths per 1 million population and the cases per 1 million in population.

This is a much better comparision 

Germany has twice the number of cases/infections per 1 million than the USA.  The USA has only 1 more death for each 1 million in population.

Country, Other	Total Cases	New Cases	Total Deaths	New Deaths	Total Recovered	Active Cases	Serious, Critical	Tot Cases/ 1M pop	Deaths/ 1M pop
World	702,368	+39,286	33,178	+2,321	149,215	519,975	26,337	90.1	4.3
USA	131,403	+7,825	2,329	+108	4,378	124,696	2,948	397	7
Germany	60,659	+2,964	482	+49	9,211	50,966	1,979	724	6

 

But as AntEater said above--" So it's not a competition, everyone is doing their best for their people, how can you hate on that?"

In conclusion--quit comparing your Country to everyone else---If you are a scientist as you claim, you sure skew the numbers to fit your narrative-

That is unscientific. 

[jjkopite]

10 minutes ago, happyone said:

This is the current data--pay close attention to the deaths per 1 million population and the cases per 1 million in population.

This is a much better comparision 

Germany has twice the number of cases/infections per 1 million than the USA.  The USA has only 1 more death for each 1 million in population.

Germany has been very aggressive performing testing for Covid19 so the cases per million is probably more accurate than most countries, including my own.

[Alladino]

20 minutes ago, AntEater said:

Vietnam which borders China and has a population of 95 million has only had about 134 infections and 0 dead. A friend in Vietnam told me that business is as usual and although they have taken a few precautions they have not had to do anything as extreme as what is going on in the West. He said the only thing they've done differently is have people wear masks. 

How Vietnam is winning its 'war' on coronavirus

WWW.DW.COM

---

A densely populated neighbor of China, Vietnam has a weak health care system and a low budget for combating the coronavirus. So how has it managed to keep its COVID-19 infection rate so low?

 

The main difference is whether the disease can be kept under control (e.g. identify contact persons and place them under quarantine). I guess, this is the way to go. Masks and a lot of testing.

 

[happyone]

6 minutes ago, jjkopite said:

Germany has been very aggressive performing testing for Covid19 so the cases per million is probably more accurate than most countries, including my own.

That may be true--however, a statement was made with the figures available, and using those same but updated figures, I just showed a different perspective. 

[Alladino]

18 minutes ago, happyone said:

 

This is the current data--pay close attention to the deaths per 1 million population and the cases per 1 million in population.

This is a much better comparision 

Germany has twice the number of cases/infections per 1 million than the USA.  The USA has only 1 more death for each 1 million in population.

Country, Other	Total Cases	New Cases	Total Deaths	New Deaths	Total Recovered	Active Cases	Serious, Critical	Tot Cases/ 1M pop	Deaths/ 1M pop
World	702,368	+39,286	33,178	+2,321	149,215	519,975	26,337	90.1	4.3
USA	131,403	+7,825	2,329	+108	4,378	124,696	2,948	397	7
Germany	60,659	+2,964	482	+49	9,211	50,966	1,979	724	6

 

But as AntEater said above--" So it's not a competition, everyone is doing their best for their people, how can you hate on that?"

In conclusion--quit comparing your Country to everyone else---If you are a scientist as you claim, you sure skew the numbers to fit your narrative-

That is unscientific. 

 

In Germany, there were many first cases with people returning from skiing Holidays, with the percentage of young and sporty people is very high. In the near future the death rate may also rise.  

 

[jjkopite]

1 minute ago, happyone said:

That may be true--however, a statement was made with the figures available, and using those same but updated figures, I just showed a different perspective. 

Let us be honest, figures can be manipulated to show anything we like but my statement was just to point out that if you perform a greater percentage of tests you will get a greater percentage of positive test results whereas if you only test people who are already showing symptoms you will miss all the people with very mild/no symptoms who are infected but don't need hospital treatment, they will just pass it on to other people.

[Thestarider]

40 minutes ago, AntEater said:

An accident is an accident just like a natural disaster. You can't blame anybody when Mother Nature is involved and the State Department with all it's intelligence has not pointed the finger at China so that says a lot because I know they wouldn't hold back if they did think something was up.

Same reason why the US was never held accountable for the Spanish Flu. Sometimes shit just happens...

Secretary Michael R. Pompeo With Hugh Hewitt of The Hugh Hewitt Show

Interview

Michael R. Pompeo, Secretary of State

March 26, 2020

QUESTION:  Neither can I.  Let me move to China.  Can you confirm the report that the G7 disagrees with you over your belief we ought to call this the Wuhan virus?

SECRETARY POMPEO:  So different countries take different approaches.  I will say this:  I was actually pleased yesterday.  The EU countries that are part of the G7 made very clear, as did my Japanese counterpart, that the Chinese disinformation campaign that the Chinese are actively engaged in even as we speak, trying to defer blame, trying to claim that they are the solution to this and in fact they weren’t the nation that, at the very beginning of this, had the – one country that had the opportunity and the data set that could have put this virus in a much better place than we are today and failed to do so.

The G7 countries yesterday were unanimous in saying we understand that this is a risk, that this is a problem both to the EU and to the United States and the world, and they agreed to jointly work alongside us to push back against this disinformation campaign.

QUESTION:  But on a name they cannot agree?

SECRETARY POMPEO:  Everybody’s got a different theory.  My theory is we should always be accurate with respect to how we identify something.  This virus began in Wuhan; I’ve referred to it as the Wuhan virus.  It is important that the world understands how this began because we need transparency to save lives, Hugh.  It’s that simple.  We need facts and data.  China has a special responsibility to be transparent because the outbreak started in China, in Wuhan, and the Chinese Government was the first to know about it.

QUESTION:  Does General Secretary Xi owe the world an apology and an explanation?

SECRETARY POMPEO:  I’ll leave that to him.  What I can tell you are the facts.  You’ll recall, Hugh, that at the very onset of this, when America first learned about this, we did our best to make sure that we had transparency and information.  We offered to send our expert medical providers in.  We offered to make sure that we could provide whatever support they needed.  And instead of cracking down on the virus in a timely fashion, they cracked down on information flow.  They kicked journalists out.  They punished those who were speaking about this inside of their own country.

When you have challenges, when you have crises like this one, the most important thing at the onset is to make sure that the world gets access to the data that they need to prevent this, to prevent the spread of this, and the Chinese Government did not act in a way that’s consistent with that global need, that global demand.

QUESTION:  I wish to play for your Dr. Fauci on CNN last night, a quick clip, cut number 23:  “Italy got hit very badly because they had a large number of importations from China by Chinese tourists.”  Do you agree with that, Secretary Pompeo?

SECRETARY POMPEO:  I do.  That’s factually accurate.  I think if I heard the clip right, that was Italy he was referring to. That’s also the case in Iran that there were many flights between China and Iran, and we think that there are, in fact, many nations that had their outbreak begin with transit from China.  And it’s important to know, too, it was the case at the onset of this there were countries that wanted to close their doors to Chinese travel, to the Chinese, and the Chinese Government pushed back against them, asking them to keep their airports open in an effort to protect China from the stigma that might be attached with having transportation closed down.

[Thestarider]

59 minutes ago, AntEater said:

An accident is an accident just like a natural disaster. You can't blame anybody when Mother Nature is involved and the State Department with all it's intelligence has not pointed the finger at China so that says a lot because I know they wouldn't hold back if they did think something was up.

Same reason why the US was never held accountable for the Spanish Flu. Sometimes shit just happens...

Secretary Michael R. Pompeo With Tony Perkins of Washington Watch

Interview

Michael R. Pompeo, Secretary of State

March 24, 2020

QUESTION:  I know you just got back in from off the road traveling.  I appreciate you joining us this afternoon.  But I’m going to ask you a very plain, straightforward question:  Where did this virus come from that over 50,000 Americans have contracted, in the last count, about 700 had died from?

SECRETARY POMPEO:  Yeah, Tony, this virus began in Wuhan, China.  There’s no doubt about where it began.  Indeed, the Chinese Communist Party itself acknowledged that that’s where the virus began.  And unfortunately, the Chinese Communist Party covered this up and delayed its response in a way that has truly put thousands of lives at risk.

QUESTION:  Yeah, the timeline on this quite clear that they sat on this for over a month, and even then continued to deny that there was human-to-human transmittal of this disease, saying it all came from animals.  And in the meantime, this thing began to spread literally around the globe.

SECRETARY POMPEO:  Well, Tony, your viewers or listeners who are paying attention know full well every day, every week matters in terms of how this information is transmitted around the world.  That is, when you share this information, the best scientists around the world can begin to work on it.  You can start all the processes, not only vaccines and things that mitigate, but you can begin to put in place the things that will cause the spread to be decreased.

And it’s multiplicative, and so every day that the Chinese Communist Party sat on this information and didn’t do the right thing, and instead punished doctors who were attempting to alert the world about what was taking place there in Wuhan, increased the number of people who would be exposed, and thereby put all of us all around the world – and the Chinese people as well – put them at unnecessary risk, too.

QUESTION:  Well – and you may not want to go here, but I certainly want to make this statement, because the World Health Organization really played cover-up for China, basically going along with the Chinese line, and that was troubling to me.  This is an organization that’s supposed to be looking out for the global health, but yet they were buying the line that China was feeding, the cover-up and misinformation.

SECRETARY POMPEO:  When we go back and look at this, we will, I think, all find out who was transparent, who was straightforward in the course of this moving forward.  We can see – and you referred to this earlier – the cover-up effort continues; the disinformation campaign from Russia and Iran as well as China continues.  They’re talking about it coming from the U.S. Army and they’re saying maybe it began in Italy, all things to deflect responsibility.

And while the time will come for recriminations, we’ve got to work our way forward.  But the world needs to understand what’s really going on, because it’s still important.  It’s still important to have transparency even today.  This is an ongoing global crisis, and we need to make sure that every country today is being transparent sharing what’s really going on, so that the global community, the global health care, infectious disease community can begin to work on this in a holistic way.

My concern is that this cover-up, this disinformation that the Chinese Communist Party is engaged in, is still denying the world the information it needs so that we can prevent further cases or something like this from recurring again.

Coronavirus - United States Department of State

WWW.STATE.GOV

 

[happyone]

15 minutes ago, jjkopite said:

Let us be honest, figures can be manipulated to show anything we like but my statement was just to point out that if you perform a greater percentage of tests you will get a greater percentage of positive test results whereas if you only test people who are already showing symptoms you will miss all the people with very mild/no symptoms who are infected but don't need hospital treatment, they will just pass it on to other people.

I understood that--but again, we can only work with the numbers we are given and whether or not they are entirely accurate does not matter in this case. .   

What I was pointing out- that given the same set of numbers--there are different perspectives on presenting the data in a more comparative way. 

That is all. 

[jjkopite]

1 minute ago, happyone said:

I understood that--but again, we can only work with the numbers we are given and whether or not they are entirely accurate does not matter in this case. .   

What I was pointing out- that given the same set of numbers--there are different perspectives on presenting the data in a more comparative way. 

That is all. 

Agreed, I just dislike the way some people politically slant some figures to serve their own political ideology. Politics should play no part of a forum regarding such a worldwide disaster.