Discussion:2019 Novel Corona Virus (Covid19) and It's Political Ramifications #3

[Ridgerunner]

1 minute ago, Amy3 said:

Yep I am, but I'm not a nurse or a doctor. I monitor clinical drug trials. Basically I manage doctors and their staff who are conducting clinical drug trials. I make sure that they are conducting the study according to the protocol, Good Clinical Practice, FDA Code of Federal Regulations, and ICH Guidelines (International Council of Harmonization). I audit study data that is ultimately used to determine if a drug is safe and effective and I make sure that the site is inspection ready in the event of an audit by a regulatory authority.  

The doctors who have claimed success with hydroxychloroquine have a precise treatment regimen they use with their patients. Why don't researchers work with these doctors to conduct double blind studies to evaluate the validity of their treatment regimens?  

[Dave 27]

6 minutes ago, Amy3 said:

Yep I am, but I'm not a nurse or a doctor. I monitor clinical drug trials. Basically I manage doctors and their staff who are conducting clinical drug trials. I make sure that they are conducting the study according to the protocol, Good Clinical Practice, FDA Code of Federal Regulations, and ICH Guidelines (International Council of Harmonization). I audit study data that is ultimately used to determine if a drug is safe and effective and I make sure that the site is inspection ready in the event of an audit by a regulatory authority.  

Interesting,thanks for that👍

[Ridgerunner]

The latest internet headline from TIME says, " Up to 80% of Covid-19 Infections Are Asymptomatic, a New Case Report Says".  And from that TIME concludes that we need more social distancing because we don't know who is infected.  Hell, if 80% of infected people are asymptomatic why should we shut everything down. Doesn't  it make more sense to isolate those who face the most danger from covid-19 ( the elderly and people with preexisting health conditions) and allow the rest of society to live a normal life? 

[Ridgerunner]

The May 21,2020 article in SHOTS HEALTH NEWS FROM NPR entitled "Politics Around Hydroxychloroquine Hamper Science"  helps to explain why studies of the drug are being hampered.

[letsdothis]

From Yale's website.

"A new study in the Lancet retrospectively analyzed 96,000 patient
medical records from December 2019 to investigate the effects of
hydroxychloroquine on COVID-19 patients. The 15,000 patients who
were treated with the drug had a 34% increase in risk of mortality
and a 137% increased risk of serious heart arrhythmia, these risks
were even high for those who were also treated with an antibiotic.
This study only confirms previous understanding that
hydroxychloroquine has no benefit in treating COVID-19 patients
and may increase the risk of adverse cardiovascular events.²¹ The
WHO is halting the hydroxychloroquine portion of its Solidarity Trial,
which aims to find new treatments for COVID-19 patients, following
the new Lancet study.²²"

[Thestarider]

34 minutes ago, letsdothis said:

From Yale's website.

"A new study in the Lancet retrospectively analyzed 96,000 patient
medical records from December 2019 to investigate the effects of
hydroxychloroquine on COVID-19 patients. The 15,000 patients who
were treated with the drug had a 34% increase in risk of mortality
and a 137% increased risk of serious heart arrhythmia, these risks
were even high for those who were also treated with an antibiotic.
This study only confirms previous understanding that
hydroxychloroquine has no benefit in treating COVID-19 patients
and may increase the risk of adverse cardiovascular events.²¹ The
WHO is halting the hydroxychloroquine portion of its Solidarity Trial,
which aims to find new treatments for COVID-19 patients, following
the new Lancet study.²²"

How could medical records from 6 countries be used in this study in DEC. 2019 ?

January 13 - 19

The WHO reported on January 13 a case in Thailand, the first outside of China, in a woman who had arrived from Wuhan.

On January 17, as a second death was reported in Wuhan, health authorities in the US announced that three airports would start screening passengers arriving from the city.

Authorities in the US, Nepal, France, Australia, Malaysia, Singapore, South Korea, Vietnam and Taiwan confirmed cases over the following days.

January 20 - 26

On January 20, China reported a third death and more than 200 infections, with cases also reported outside Hubei province including in Beijing, Shanghai and Shenzhen.

Meanwhile, a Chinese expert on infectious diseases confirmed human-to-human transmission to state broadcaster CCTV, raising fears of a major outbreak as millions travelled for the Lunar New Year holiday.

The cities of Wuhan, Xiantao and Chibi in Hubei province were placed under effective quarantine on January 23 as air and rail departures were suspended. By the end of the week, more areas were placed under lockdown affecting a total of 56 million people. 

The WHO said that the outbreak did not yet constitute a public emergency of international concern and there was "no evidence" of the virus spreading between humans outside of China.

 

January 27 - February 2 

On January 30, the WHO declared the coronavirus a global emergency as the death toll in China jumped to 170, with 7,711 cases reported in the country, where the virus had spread to all 31 provinces. By the end of the week, China reported 304 deaths amid 14,380 infections. 

Within a few days, new cases were confirmed in India, Philippines, Russia, Spain, Sweden and the United Kingdom, Australia, Canada, Germany, Japan, Singapore, the US, the UAE and Vietnam.

On February 2, the Philippines reported the first death outside China, the victim being a Chinese man from Wuhan, the capital of Hubei province where the new coronavirus was detected in late 2019.

[happyone]

Hydroxychloroquine Lancet study of 96,000 Covid patients ignores Zinc, wasn’t randomized, has 12% death rate

A new study came out last night in the Lancet which is being used to call for the end of doctors using Choloroquine and Hydroxychloroquine to treat Covid patients without them being enrolled in a clinical trial. Some of the claims about “no chance of any benefit” seem a bit premature given the limits of this kind of study:Superficially, it looks large and comprehensive but there are three obvious problems with it –

1. It ignores zinc entirely. There is not even a mention of the essential mineral, despite Chloroquine being a well known zinc ionophone (something that pumps a mineral across a cell membrane) and intracellular zinc being identified as a useful anti-viral.

2. It’s not randomized. If doctors are prescribing these drugs to sicker patients or patients with a certain (unknown) genetic risk factor that selection bias (there we go again) could neutralize the entire result. We just don’t know.

3. These were sick people. The total mortality in this whole group was almost 12%. This trial tells us nothing about using these drugs as preventative measures in mild or moderate cases. It doesn’t tell us whether people had symptoms for a week before getting to hospital — and presumably if people saw a doctor early on, used HCQ and zinc, and then didn’t go to hospital at all (because they recovered) then they won’t be counted at all.

So this trial successfully filters and removes the success stories (whatever they are) from early HCQ treatment.

 HCQ is meant to be used with Zinc, so it is surprising that the medical researchers did not even mention it. Or in this politicized new world of medicine, perhaps it isn’t?

They obtained data from 671 hospitals in many countries and control for obvious factors, and a stack of co-morbidities and demographics. Two thirds of the patients are from the US. They only include patients that are diagnosed, and start one or the other chloroquine type drug within 48 hours of diagnosis (but that may be quite some time after they first got sick). The groups are split into HCQ, or CQ, paired with or without Azithromycin (Az). But both the antimalarial and the antibiotic are known to affect something called the QT interval. Obviously patients who have long QT’s or heart arrhythmia would be at higher risk. Docs would know.

We note that HCQ is not a big money-spinner for large pharmaceutical companies, being an old cheap out-of-patent drug, and that some of these authors do work sometimes with Big Pharma:

 

Prof Mandeep R Mehra,  (MRM)           Brigham and Women's Hospital Heart and Vascular Center and Harvard Medical School, Boston, MA 02115, USA

Sapan S Desai  (SSD)                             Founder of Surgisphere Corporation, Chicago, IL, USA

Frank Ruschitzka                                     Affiliations University Heart Center, University Hospital Zurich, Zurich, Switzerland

Amit N Patel   (ANP)                               Affiliations Department of Biomedical Engineering, University of Utah, Salt Lake City, UT, USAHCA Research Institute, Nashville, TN, USA

 

Contributors--Initials of the persons in the study are shown below (see above for who they are)

The study was conceived and designed by MRM and ANP. Acquisition of data and statistical analysis of the data were supervised and performed by SSD. MRM drafted the manuscript and all authors participated in critical revision of the manuscript for important intellectual content. MRM and ANP supervised the study. All authors approved the final manuscript and were responsible for the decision to submit for publication.

 Authors Declaration of interests

MRM reports personal fees from Abbott, Medtronic, Janssen, Mesoblast, Portola, Bayer, Baim Institute for Clinical Research, NupulseCV, FineHeart, Leviticus, Roivant, and Triple Gene. SSD is the founder of Surgisphere Corporation. FR has been paid for time spent as a committee member for clinical trials, advisory boards, other forms of consulting, and lectures or presentations; these payments were made directly to the University of Zurich and no personal payments were received in relation to these trials or other activities. ANP declares no competing interests.

Acknowledgments

The development and maintenance of the Surgical Outcomes Collaborative database was funded by Surgisphere Corporation (Chicago, IL, USA)

 

So there is a question about the accuracy of this study, in addition to the above commentary there is also this published by The Guardian:  Read the article and you will see the discrepancies in the data reported in the study.

And you can connect the dots .What is interesting to note is who funded the study, who collected data for the study, and the various financial links of those involved. 

Questions raised over hydroxychloroquine study which caused WHO to halt trials for Covid-19 | Science | The Guardian

WWW.THEGUARDIAN.COM

---

Exclusive: Australian researchers query origin of data used for Lancet study, but stress there is no evidence drug is a safe or effective treatment

Questions raised over hydroxychloroquine study which caused WHO to halt trials for Covid-19

Read the article and you will find errors made by the researchers with the data

 

[Ridgerunner]

2 minutes ago, happyone said:

Hydroxychloroquine Lancet study of 96,000 Covid patients ignores Zinc, wasn’t randomized, has 12% death rate

A new study came out last night in the Lancet which is being used to call for the end of doctors using Choloroquine and Hydroxychloroquine to treat Covid patients without them being enrolled in a clinical trial. Some of the claims about “no chance of any benefit” seem a bit premature given the limits of this kind of study:Superficially, it looks large and comprehensive but there are three obvious problems with it –

1. It ignores zinc entirely. There is not even a mention of the essential mineral, despite Chloroquine being a well known zinc ionophone (something that pumps a mineral across a cell membrane) and intracellular zinc being identified as a useful anti-viral.

2. It’s not randomized. If doctors are prescribing these drugs to sicker patients or patients with a certain (unknown) genetic risk factor that selection bias (there we go again) could neutralize the entire result. We just don’t know.

3. These were sick people. The total mortality in this whole group was almost 12%. This trial tells us nothing about using these drugs as preventative measures in mild or moderate cases. It doesn’t tell us whether people had symptoms for a week before getting to hospital — and presumably if people saw a doctor early on, used HCQ and zinc, and then didn’t go to hospital at all (because they recovered) then they won’t be counted at all.

So this trial successfully filters and removes the success stories (whatever they are) from early HCQ treatment.

 HCQ is meant to be used with Zinc, so it is surprising that the medical researchers did not even mention it. Or in this politicized new world of medicine, perhaps it isn’t?

They obtained data from 671 hospitals in many countries and control for obvious factors, and a stack of co-morbidities and demographics. Two thirds of the patients are from the US. They only include patients that are diagnosed, and start one or the other chloroquine type drug within 48 hours of diagnosis (but that may be quite some time after they first got sick). The groups are split into HCQ, or CQ, paired with or without Azithromycin (Az). But both the antimalarial and the antibiotic are known to affect something called the QT interval. Obviously patients who have long QT’s or heart arrhythmia would be at higher risk. Docs would know.

We note that HCQ is not a big money-spinner for large pharmaceutical companies, being an old cheap out-of-patent drug, and that some of these authors do work sometimes with Big Pharma:

 

Prof Mandeep R Mehra,  (MRM)           Brigham and Women's Hospital Heart and Vascular Center and Harvard Medical School, Boston, MA 02115, USA

Sapan S Desai  (SSD)                             Founder of Surgisphere Corporation, Chicago, IL, USA

 

Frank Ruschitzka                                     Affiliations University Heart Center, University Hospital Zurich, Zurich, Switzerland

Amit N Patel   (ANP)                               Affiliations Department of Biomedical Engineering, University of Utah, Salt Lake City, UT, USAHCA Research Institute, Nashville, TN, USA

 

Contributors--Initials of the persons in the study are shown below (see above for who they are)

The study was conceived and designed by MRM and ANP. Acquisition of data and statistical analysis of the data were supervised and performed by SSD. MRM drafted the manuscript and all authors participated in critical revision of the manuscript for important intellectual content. MRM and ANP supervised the study. All authors approved the final manuscript and were responsible for the decision to submit for publication.

 Authors Declaration of interests

MRM reports personal fees from Abbott, Medtronic, Janssen, Mesoblast, Portola, Bayer, Baim Institute for Clinical Research, NupulseCV, FineHeart, Leviticus, Roivant, and Triple Gene. SSD is the founder of Surgisphere Corporation. FR has been paid for time spent as a committee member for clinical trials, advisory boards, other forms of consulting, and lectures or presentations; these payments were made directly to the University of Zurich and no personal payments were received in relation to these trials or other activities. ANP declares no competing interests.

Acknowledgments

The development and maintenance of the Surgical Outcomes Collaborative database was funded by Surgisphere Corporation (Chicago, IL, USA)

 

So there is a question about the accuracy of this study, in addition to the above commentary there is also this published by The Guardian:  Read the article and you will see the discrepancies in the data reported in the study.

And you can connect the dots .What is interesting to note is who funded the study, who collected data for the study, and the various financial links of those involved. 

Questions raised over hydroxychloroquine study which caused WHO to halt trials for Covid-19 | Science | The Guardian

WWW.THEGUARDIAN.COM

---

Exclusive: Australian researchers query origin of data used for Lancet study, but stress there is no evidence drug is a safe or effective treatment

Questions raised over hydroxychloroquine study which caused WHO to halt trials for Covid-19

Read the article and you will find errors made by the researchers with the data

 

And Moos will totally ignore what you just posted just like he ignored the VA study being totally discredited. 

[Ridgerunner]

The brilliant governor in my state (Illinois) today said that only 20% of people who are infected with covid-19 become sick enough to need medical treatment. If that is true, why the hell is the economy in the whole state of Illinois still shut down? In my county we have had a total of 39 covid-19 cases with one death.  The big covid-19 problem in Illinois is Chicago and the adjoining counties, so why not open up the rest of the state?

[happyone]

3 minutes ago, Ridgerunner said:

The brilliant governor in my state (Illinois) today said that only 20% of people who are infected with covid-19 become sick enough to need medical treatment. If that is true, why the hell is the economy in the whole state of Illinois still shut down? In my county we have had a total of 39 covid-19 cases with one death.  The big covid-19 problem in Illinois is Chicago and the adjoining counties, so why not open up the rest of the state?

The answer is simple---Democrats and leftists need to prove that they know what is best for the masses--and have the need to control the masses---so he is exercising his opportunity, as many of the Deomocratic leaders are doing in the USA

to take advantage of the situation.  They are embracing the "let no crisis go to waste" to further their fear and hold on the population, thus letting them change the future of America to the new normal.  

[Robwin]

19 minutes ago, happyone said:

The answer is simple---Democrats and leftists need to prove that they know what is best for the masses--and have the need to control the masses---so he is exercising his opportunity, as many of the Deomocratic leaders are doing in the USA

to take advantage of the situation.  They are embracing the "let no crisis go to waste" to further their fear and hold on the population, thus letting them change the future of America to the new normal.  

Funny you should say that much the same in the UK see piccy to illustrate,they slag of one person but do exactly the same themselves and no one says fuckall about that lol.

[Ridgerunner]

Wonder when CNN is going to complain about Minneapolis rioters not practicing proper social distancing while burning down stores?