Trump Will be Impeached

[Guest]

11 hours ago, Amy3 said:

Those countries you listed are not socialist countries. They all, in fact, operate on a free market capitalistic system.  I define socialism as the systemic takeover by a Government to own and control the nations economy. I think that's a pretty good definition off the top of my head. I have no doubt that this is what the left ultimately wants.

No, they are not socialist countries. In many of them,. social democrats have had a lot of power, but also other parties care about people´s welfare, which makes those countries different from the U.S. You started this discussion by saying Hillary Clinton is a socialist - what a claim! - but when I asked you if you ever have had real socialism in the U.S., you started talking about Venezuela and Brazil. As Maturin already said, it does not make sense to discuss socialism in this thread, as our starting points for that argumentation are so extremely far from each other.

[Maturin]

12 hours ago, Amy3 said:

Those countries you listed are not socialist countries. They all, in fact, operate on a free market capitalistic system.  I define socialism as the systemic takeover by a Government to own and control the nations economy. I think that's a pretty good definition off the top of my head. I have no doubt that this is what the left ultimately wants.

 

1 hour ago, kalevipoeg said:

No, they are not socialist countries. In many of them,. social democrats have had a lot of power, but also other parties care about people´s welfare, which makes those countries different from the U.S. You started this discussion by saying Hillary Clinton is a socialist - what a claim! - but when I asked you if you ever have had real socialism in the U.S., you started talking about Venezuela and Brazil. As Maturin already said, it does not make sense to discuss socialism in this thread, as our starting points for that argumentation are so extremely far from each other.

12 hours ago, Amy3 said:

Those countries you listed are not socialist countries. They all, in fact, operate on a free market capitalistic system.  I define socialism as the systemic takeover by a Government to own and control the nations economy. I think that's a pretty good definition off the top of my head. I have no doubt that this is what the left ultimately wants.

 

1 hour ago, kalevipoeg said:

No, they are not socialist countries. In many of them,. social democrats have had a lot of power, but also other parties care about people´s welfare, which makes those countries different from the U.S. You started this discussion by saying Hillary Clinton is a socialist - what a claim! - but when I asked you if you ever have had real socialism in the U.S., you started talking about Venezuela and Brazil. As Maturin already said, it does not make sense to discuss socialism in this thread, as our starting points for that argumentation are so extremely far from each other.

I was trying to be generous and go by the standards that the Overton window in the US regarding socialism but it's too difficult when they willingly buy the right wing elite line that democratic socialism - a system in which the government aims to promote the public welfare through taxation and spending, within the framework of a capitalist economy - is regarded as socialism that will bring about a Bolshevik Red Terror.

You've got your free market capitalism, with fenced social spending for public and national welfare = democratic socialism - pretty much most of the developed world.  Then you've got your hypercapitalism, in which the wealth of labour is concentrated and accelerated ever upwards, where the politicians are capable of only short term thinking, and the markets are contrived, where the richest get to design and amend the rules of the game, usually through the granting of ever increasing tax breaks (just for winning their own game) = the US, where any attempt to level this playing field in favour of its citizenry rather than business is branded as socialist, communist or Trotskyist.  The branding is of course done by the hypercapitalists in their media who have the most to lose should they be required to pay a fair tax rate.  Item #1 on the US foreign policy To Do List is surely to, Crush Any Nation That Threatens To Show Our Nation Up For The Massive Ponzi Scheme That It Is (And Get All Their Natural Resources Whilst Doing So).

Looking at it like that certainly makes some sense out of what's currently happening in Venezuela.  There is a US led economic war against the nation with the largest proven oil reserves on the planet.  Does anybody seriously think that with so much potential oil wealth that the nation will seriously not exploit that on international markets by becoming a closed, planned economy or worse a communist state?  Where is the threat to the US if it were to do so anyway?  The US oil dollar will be affected of course.  So, instead of allowing the "free" market, that for some reason the US seems so proud of to find its balance, we see what is happening now in Venezuela...

We see the Saudis acting in concert with the US and Israel ( the modern day Axis of almost everything that's wrong on this planet today) flooding the market with cheap oil to put socialist Venezuela into poverty , whilst the US stirs up dissent using it's time honoured method of infiltration, distraction and deception to capitalise on the terrible economic situation that they have created. Meanwhile US folks back home?  "Hahaha, look what those terrible socialists have done to themselves, gosh darn it I'm so glad that I'm not a socialist or a democratic socialist or a social democrat or TrotskyMarxistScandinavianLenninist, I just hope I never get sick or expect  6 months paid maternity leave. GO USA!!"

Ah fuck it, I can't be bothered! It's massively demotivating to continue more than 30 minutes typing to show people in the US that they are being fed bullshit which is ruining their country and others when you know that the most likely reply will be some youtube propaganda, that took 30 seconds to find, which glosses over all the pertinent facts and cherry picks the ones that = USA great.

[Amy3]

Let me just say this, Hillary Clinton’s values are leftist. The idea of an ever increasing Government designed to “improve our lives”. Leftism is a progressive movement and like a progressive diesease it’s fatal.. The only possible cure is liberty. That’s right, I’m preoccupied with liberty. The USA was designed to be an experiment in liberty not egalitarianism. That value is.anti-American and kills liberty, so therefore I’m against her and her ilk.

...and no I’m not Rush Limbaugh. I prefer to think that I’m Dennis Prager’s long lost granddaughter. 💁🏼

[SPYING 1]

On 10/17/2017 at 2:22 PM, Amy3 said:

Yes, a socialist! She didn't come out like Bernie, because it wasn't in her interest to be so visibly solcialist. She needs some of that middel ground where the traditional John F Kennedy type liberals live. She could never win if she showed her true colors. It's very evident to me that she was the head of a clandestine society of policital insiders, whose aim is to create a one world Government that they can cotrol. I'll vote for an idiot over that any day. Her private server is all th evidence one needs to prove this point. She purposefully skirted the visible Government so that she could run her operations under the table unnoticed. While Trump is an idiot, Hillary is evil. That was the choice we were given. Take your pick.

Amy you keep impressing me, you have knowledge in all the subjects we talk about, and most importantly you have common sense which isn't so common anymore.

[SPYING 1]

22 hours ago, Maturin said:

Except every other Western democratic country. Ask Germany, UK, Scandinavia, France, Italy, Spain - Jesus too many to name, ask them how ther paid holiday, collective worker bargaining, health care that's free at the point of need, health and saftey regulation, living wage, state pension, maternity leave for both parents, need I go on?  I think you'll find that democratic socialism is working a heck of a lot better than you realise.

If you define the "failiure" of socialism as the nascent attempts by South American countries to follow the European model that are systematically infiltrated and crushed by the US secret services and overt US economic bullying every time, then as I keep saying, I don't think you understand what socialism is.

I don't know whether to laugh or cry when I see posts like this cheering about how you are allowing the hypercapitalists in your country to completely fuck you over whilst they ensure that neighbouring countries are unable to follow a different path.

What a world we live in :(

 

You left out all the taxes you have to pay

[Maturin]

7 minutes ago, SPYING 1 said:

You left out all the taxes you have to pay

Taxes that I don't mind paying.  My only concern about where my tax money goes is that it is properly allocated to the social welfare programs that me, my loved ones and everyone I meet benefit from throughout our lives.

And there I think is the pivot of the difference between TrotskydemocraticsocialdemocraticLeninist Europe and AmeriMeMeMeMeMeCa.

You couldn't pay me enough to live in your country with the way you think, seriously.

[SPYING 1]

11 minutes ago, Maturin said:

Taxes that I don't mind paying.  My only concern about where my tax money goes is that it is properly allocated to the social welfare programs that me, my loved ones and everyone I meet benefit from throughout our lives.

And there I think is the pivot of the difference between TrotskydemocraticsocialdemocraticLeninist Europe and AmeriMeMeMeMeMeCa.

You couldn't pay me enough to live in your country with the way you think, seriously.

I like the idea of spending my hard earn money the way i like, giving it to a socialist, communist government to spread the wealth as they want without any imput from the people. No Thanks i value my Freedom & live the AMERICAN way.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, SPYING 1 said:

I like the idea of spending my hard earn money the way i like, giving it to a socialist, communist government to spread the wealth as they want without any imput from the people. No Thanks i value my Freedom & live the AMERICAN way.

Yes, I understand you do not want to see what is going on around you, your eyes are directed to your own belly-button, you live the AME - ME ME, ME, ME, ME - RICAN way (thanks Maturin for this expression!).

[SPYING 1]

4 minutes ago, kalevipoeg said:

Yes, I understand you do not want to see what is going on around you, your eyes are directed to your own belly-button, you live the AME - ME ME, ME, ME, ME - RICAN way (thanks Maturin for this expression!).

I understand that you couldn't feed or live without the government making all the decision for you, you see in AMERICA we have INDEPENDENCE, which gives us ambition to invest our money to make a better life for our children.

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, SPYING 1 said:

I understand that you couldn't feed or live without the government making all the decision for you, you see in AMERICA we have INDEPENDENCE, which gives us ambition to invest our money to make a better life for our children.

Who has independence in your country? Independence is meant for everybody, not just for ME ME ME people. How much money have the 22 million poor Americans invested for the better life of their children - the people who are in continuous danger to lose even their health insurances?

[SPYING 1]

2 minutes ago, kalevipoeg said:

Who has independence in your country? Independence is meant for everybody, not just for ME ME ME people. How much money have the 22 million poor Americans invested for the better life of their children - the people who are in continuous danger to lose even their health insurances?

So you're saying that only America has poor people ?? Our poor live better than the poor of any other country !! Our poor has F R E E

MEDICAL

CELL PHONE

INTERNET

CABLE TV

WELFARE

and they DON'T have to work

[BBsq69]

Possibly we've gone off topic and I am probably to blame as well.

Back on topic there was a program on Channel 4 UK last night about Trump and Russia which concluded that we don't (currently) if there was collusion between Russia and the Trump campaign but what we do know is that if there isn't then Trump has been doing is best to make it look like there is.
Whatever we might have to wait a few years before we can start taking the US seriously again. Of course the US is not the only country with bizarre politics at the moment but it does have the most bizarre of all.