Thoughts on Illegal immigration?

[rammer]

On 7/6/2018 at 2:07 AM, Ridgerunner said:

You said people who come here to apply for LEGAL immigration are stripped of their children.People who apply for LEGAL immigration ARE NOT SEPARATED FROM THEIR CHILDREN.So what you said is a lie. I stand by what I said.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/12/us/immigrants-family-separation.html

For those that you don't like to read alot:

Are families seeking asylum at the border being separated?

The “zero tolerance” policy is supposed to apply only to people who enter the country illegally. Presenting yourself at a port of entry and requesting asylum is not illegal. But these legal asylum seekers are generally taken into detention while their cases are processed, which can take months, and there are reports that those families are now being separated in the same way that illegal-entrant families are. Complicating the issue, many families that enter illegally request asylum once they are caught.

Ridge, your thoughts on liars?  Should we have that discussion or not?  I'm willing and able if you want to go there.  Let's do it!

 

[ashleyxyz]

On 7/6/2018 at 12:04 AM, ipiratemedia said:

“Dream On” The Cowboys rule! Last season was a fluke for the immigrants.🦅 

Maybe,  if Elliott keeps his hands off his wife. If not the cowgirl s will suck again. Fez gone,, With an gone,defense stinks. The 3agles will fly high again this year, to another Championship!

[rammer]

On 7/6/2018 at 3:04 AM, ipiratemedia said:

“Dream On” The Cowboys rule! Last season was a fluke for the immigrants.🦅 

Dream on is one of my favorite songs but probably not appropriate for the 2018 immigrant Cowboys  Sorry, had to sneak immigrant in there too.  The legal immigrants deserve respect and compassion; it's what this country has historically done.  The past is done but should serve as a path to determine what is right or wrong.  We should all agree with that I would think. 

[ipiratemedia]

                   This coming season, two Guarantee wins, over the Eagles. We have the Defense now.. 

[Thestarider]

The Truth about Separating Kids

U.S. Border Patrol agents with illegal immigrants at the U.S.-Mexico border near McAllen, Texas, May 9, 2018. (Loren Elliott/Reuters)

Some economic migrants are using children as chits, but the problem is fixable — if Congress acts.

The latest furor over Trump immigration policy involves the separation of children from parents at the border.

As usual, the outrage obscures more than it illuminates, so it’s worth walking through what’s happening here.

For the longest time, illegal immigration was driven by single males from Mexico. Over the last decade, the flow has shifted to women, children, and family units from Central America. This poses challenges we haven’t confronted before and has made what once were relatively minor wrinkles in the law loom very large.

The Trump administration isn’t changing the rules that pertain to separating an adult from the child. Those remain the same. Separation happens only if officials find that the adult is falsely claiming to be the child’s parent, or is a threat to the child, or is put into criminal proceedings.

It’s the last that is operative here. The past practice had been to give a free pass to an adult who is part of a family unit. The new Trump policy is to prosecute all adults. The idea is to send a signal that we are serious about our laws and to create a deterrent against re-entry. (Illegal entry is a misdemeanor, illegal re-entry a felony.)

When a migrant is prosecuted for illegal entry, he or she is taken into custody by the U.S. Marshals. In no circumstance anywhere in the U.S. do the marshals care for the children of people they take into custody. The child is taken into the custody of HHS, who cares for them at temporary shelters.

The criminal proceedings are exceptionally short, assuming there is no aggravating factor such as a prior illegal entity or another crime. The migrants generally plead guilty, and they are then sentenced to time served, typically all in the same day, although practices vary along the border. After this, they are returned to the custody of ICE.

If the adult then wants to go home, in keeping with the expedited order of removal that is issued as a matter of course, it’s relatively simple. The adult should be reunited quickly with his or her child, and the family returned home as a unit. In this scenario, there’s only a very brief separation.

Where it becomes much more of an issue is if the adult files an asylum claim. In that scenario, the adults are almost certainly going to be detained longer than the government is allowed to hold their children.

That’s because of something called the Flores Consent Decree from 1997. It says that unaccompanied children can be held only 20 days. A ruling by the Ninth Circuit extended this 20-day limit to children who come as part of family units. So even if we want to hold a family unit together, we are forbidden from doing so.

he clock ticking on the time the government can hold a child will almost always run out before an asylum claim is settled. The migrant is allowed ten days to seek an attorney, and there may be continuances or other complications.

A few points about all this:

1) Family units can go home quickly. The option that both honors our laws and keeps family units together is a swift return home after prosecution. But immigrant advocates hate it because they want the migrants to stay in the United States. How you view this question will depend a lot on how you view the motivation of the migrants (and how seriously you take our laws and our border).

2) There’s a better way to claim asylum. Every indication is that the migrant flow to the United States is discretionary. It nearly dried up at the beginning of the Trump administration when migrants believed that they had no chance of getting into the United States. Now, it is going in earnest again because the message got out that, despite the rhetoric, the policy at the border hasn’t changed. This strongly suggests that the flow overwhelmingly consists of economic migrants who would prefer to live in the United States, rather than victims of persecution in their home country who have no option but to get out. Even if a migrant does have a credible fear of persecution, there is a legitimate way to pursue that claim, and it does not involve entering the United States illegally. First, such people should make their asylum claim in the first country where they feel safe, i.e., Mexico or some other country they are traversing to get here. Second, if for some reason they are threatened everywhere but the United States, they should show up at a port of entry and make their claim there rather than crossing the border illegally.

3) There is a significant moral cost to not enforcing the border. There is obviously a moral cost to separating a parent from a child and almost everyone would prefer not to do it. But, under current policy and with the current resources, the only practical alternative is letting family units who show up at the border live in the country for the duration. Not only does this make a mockery of our laws, it creates an incentive for people to keep bringing children with them.

Needless to say, children should not be making this journey that is fraught with peril. But there is now a premium on bringing children because of how we have handled these cases. They are considered chits.

Just the facts and the truths, without bias, speculation, opinion or preadjust !!! 

[rammer]

53 minutes ago, Thestarider said:

The Truth about Separating Kids

U.S. Border Patrol agents with illegal immigrants at the U.S.-Mexico border near McAllen, Texas, May 9, 2018. (Loren Elliott/Reuters)

Some economic migrants are using children as chits, but the problem is fixable — if Congress acts.

The latest furor over Trump immigration policy involves the separation of children from parents at the border.

As usual, the outrage obscures more than it illuminates, so it’s worth walking through what’s happening here.

For the longest time, illegal immigration was driven by single males from Mexico. Over the last decade, the flow has shifted to women, children, and family units from Central America. This poses challenges we haven’t confronted before and has made what once were relatively minor wrinkles in the law loom very large.

The Trump administration isn’t changing the rules that pertain to separating an adult from the child. Those remain the same. Separation happens only if officials find that the adult is falsely claiming to be the child’s parent, or is a threat to the child, or is put into criminal proceedings.

It’s the last that is operative here. The past practice had been to give a free pass to an adult who is part of a family unit. The new Trump policy is to prosecute all adults. The idea is to send a signal that we are serious about our laws and to create a deterrent against re-entry. (Illegal entry is a misdemeanor, illegal re-entry a felony.)

 

When a migrant is prosecuted for illegal entry, he or she is taken into custody by the U.S. Marshals. In no circumstance anywhere in the U.S. do the marshals care for the children of people they take into custody. The child is taken into the custody of HHS, who cares for them at temporary shelters.

The criminal proceedings are exceptionally short, assuming there is no aggravating factor such as a prior illegal entity or another crime. The migrants generally plead guilty, and they are then sentenced to time served, typically all in the same day, although practices vary along the border. After this, they are returned to the custody of ICE.

If the adult then wants to go home, in keeping with the expedited order of removal that is issued as a matter of course, it’s relatively simple. The adult should be reunited quickly with his or her child, and the family returned home as a unit. In this scenario, there’s only a very brief separation.

Where it becomes much more of an issue is if the adult files an asylum claim. In that scenario, the adults are almost certainly going to be detained longer than the government is allowed to hold their children.

That’s because of something called the Flores Consent Decree from 1997. It says that unaccompanied children can be held only 20 days. A ruling by the Ninth Circuit extended this 20-day limit to children who come as part of family units. So even if we want to hold a family unit together, we are forbidden from doing so.

he clock ticking on the time the government can hold a child will almost always run out before an asylum claim is settled. The migrant is allowed ten days to seek an attorney, and there may be continuances or other complications.

A few points about all this:

1) Family units can go home quickly. The option that both honors our laws and keeps family units together is a swift return home after prosecution. But immigrant advocates hate it because they want the migrants to stay in the United States. How you view this question will depend a lot on how you view the motivation of the migrants (and how seriously you take our laws and our border).

2) There’s a better way to claim asylum. Every indication is that the migrant flow to the United States is discretionary. It nearly dried up at the beginning of the Trump administration when migrants believed that they had no chance of getting into the United States. Now, it is going in earnest again because the message got out that, despite the rhetoric, the policy at the border hasn’t changed. This strongly suggests that the flow overwhelmingly consists of economic migrants who would prefer to live in the United States, rather than victims of persecution in their home country who have no option but to get out. Even if a migrant does have a credible fear of persecution, there is a legitimate way to pursue that claim, and it does not involve entering the United States illegally. First, such people should make their asylum claim in the first country where they feel safe, i.e., Mexico or some other country they are traversing to get here. Second, if for some reason they are threatened everywhere but the United States, they should show up at a port of entry and make their claim there rather than crossing the border illegally.

3) There is a significant moral cost to not enforcing the border. There is obviously a moral cost to separating a parent from a child and almost everyone would prefer not to do it. But, under current policy and with the current resources, the only practical alternative is letting family units who show up at the border live in the country for the duration. Not only does this make a mockery of our laws, it creates an incentive for people to keep bringing children with them.

Needless to say, children should not be making this journey that is fraught with peril. But there is now a premium on bringing children because of how we have handled these cases. They are considered chits.

Just the facts and the truths, without bias, speculation, opinion or preadjust !!! 

Your source please Rider?  Some of us would like to see your source for everything you post.  Just saying.  It's all  about credibility. 

[rammer]

I'm sure you understand.

[Thestarider]

Ok deal, if you will also post the source for everything you state or post as well, because some of us want to see your sources, and after all it is all about credibility, or it is just your opinion, then you must post this is my opinion without any sources to back it up. Since you watch the anonymous  sourced "Fake News" so much I know where crap comes from.

[rammer]

Has anything  changed from May 9th which is when this was written.  Get up to date.  It's July and you're posting stale thoughts.  Today is July 7th.

[Thestarider]

Nothing has changed rammer, nothing except a liberal district judge wants to get his name in the news, and of course I bet you can guess from which state that judge comes from cant you ? It certainly wasn't one from Texas, where all of this problem really lies. "ZERO TOLERENCE is still in effect, and the kids are being reunited with their parents if in fact they are their parents as proven by DNA testing.

[rammer]

22 hours ago, Thestarider said:

Ok deal, if you will also post the source for everything you state or post as well, because some of us want to see your sources, and after all it is all about credibility, or it is just your opinion, then you must post this is my opinion without any sources to back it up.

Will they comply with  a federal judge's opinion?  Facts or opinion?  How about your post that all Americans agree with you?  How megalomaniacal is that?   Have you evolved? You are  a moderator on a chat room professing to speak for all Americans.   Frickin hypocrite.

[Thestarider]

I am not a Moderator in this thread, and I live everyday with Illegal Immigration, 70% of the work force here is Mexican, Guatemalan, Somali, or Korean.  I have lived with everyday since the mid nineties. How many illegals do you work with, or even talk to everyday in Philly or even anywhere in Pennsylvania ?