BREX(SH)IT

[Foamy T. Squirrel]

Well, BBSq69, I certainly appreciate your willingness to take on this thread.

The problem is that most non-UK people cannot wrap their heads around the idea that people of a formerly major (and I mean MAJOR) world power would acquiesce to a foreign power controlling them politically and essentially disregard its sovereignty as a free nation. I understand free trade, but I'm not certain that the political edicts and group think of continental Europe have ever been compatible with England or its subsequent manifestations as the UK.

It doesn't help that your political leadership seems to be as confused about Brexit as we outsiders are.

But I do enjoy watching MPs argue publicly. Oratory is still alive in England. (Our Congress does everything in a back room, and all speeches are previously contrived by invisible focus groups.)

So, pray tell ol' boy, what is the next legal step to getting progress made on resolving the Brexit situation? Should the MPs just start physically assaulting each other? Will Boris prevail? We people across the pond are very loyal to our ally across the pond, but how things work there legally is very, very, different.

[BBsq69]

On 9/21/2019 at 2:28 AM, Foamy T. Squirrel said:

So, pray tell ol' boy, what is the next legal step to getting progress made on resolving the Brexit situation? Should the MPs just start physically assaulting each other? Will Boris prevail? We people across the pond are very loyal to our ally across the pond, but how things work there legally is very, very, different.

Well this is the problem. With Boris you cannot tell what will happen. Boris possesses no beliefs so is only driven by his own ambition and he demonstrated this while at Oxford when he would flip to whatever view was the most popular or would put him in the best position. For example when May said she would stand down within weeks if she won the vote on her deal, Boris having declared he would do whatever the DUP was happy with, immediately (and absolutely immediately) switched to supporting her deal followed by the bulk of the ERG (European Research Group who wanted the most complete break possible) who worked out they could take control of the process. Boris knew the power was shifting to the right so he decided that in order to capitalise on that he would support the Leave campaign - and given his talent for publicity he rather than Farage or genuine Eurosceptic (but hitherto liberal) Gove became the face of the campaign.

My personal feeling is Boris will get a deal because now he has to. Without the "No Deal" option which many on the right favour even though it wasn't really mentioned during the referendum he cannot just let "No Deal" happen - well he can but not in any way that would not lead him into difficulty - which may well have been his plan.And remember this is not because he believes in democracy but because he feels it is a position he can defend to the people who might want to support him. I often criticise politicians who are weighed down by dogma just because they cannot be flexible but someone who does not care about any ideals can be dangerous.

As for what is going in the Supreme Court - an idea Blair got from the US although it is not political, at least in theory - I don't see it as having any big effect on Brexit. All the proroguing (suspension) of parliament meant was that those against "No Deal" had to act very quickly and they did so the effect should not be that much. It is designed mainly to embarrass Boris but I think that might be impossible anyway.

Boris has now put his ( almost certainly not his) ideas to the EU but, even if he turns up with something concrete, the Commons may still reject any deal he does although my feeling is they won't but we'll see.

[Robwin]

30 minutes ago, BBsq69 said:

 

Boris has now put his ( almost certainly not his) ideas to the EU but, even if he turns up with something concrete, the Commons may still reject any deal he does although my feeling is they won't but we'll see.

If he does get a deal AND they still reject it he will be quite entitled to go the no deal route. I do honestly think we will finally leave on Oct 31st whatever happens and Boris will get his way as I am sure he still has some tricks up his sleeve to stuff up Corbyn and his mob. I sure hope so.

[Alladino]

On 9/21/2019 at 11:46 PM, Robwin said:

If he does get a deal AND they still reject it he will be quite entitled to go the no deal route. I do honestly think we will finally leave on Oct 31st whatever happens and Boris will get his way as I am sure he still has some tricks up his sleeve to stuff up Corbyn and his mob. I sure hope so.

One of the most important ideas of the EU is to be stronger together than alone. I never understood why some people think that no deal will be a positv out for GB. 

As I understand it, there is now a law that requires BJ to make a request for an extension. Perhaps this additional time should be used to let the people vote again. Maybe a people vote today will recognize that the world isn't as simple as the populists like to pretend. 

 

 

[Robwin]

38 minutes ago, Alladino said:

One of the most important ideas of the EU is to be stronger together than alone. I never understood why some people think that no deal will be a positv out for GB. 

As I understand it, there is now a law that requires BJ to make a request for an extension. Perhaps this additional time should be used to let the people vote again. Maybe a people vote today will recognize that the world isn't as simple as the populists like to pretend. 

Because the majority in the 2016 referendum voted to leave the EU and not be ruled by unelected morons in Brussels basically which is run to all extents by Germany or for their purpose.

And whats this Peoples vote crap?, its called a referendum or can't you make yourself say that word. We have already had one and Referendums are not the best of 3 and the result was leave. I know many people find it difficult to understand.

Or is your view that we keep holding referendums until the hierarchy get the result they want eh 

[TBG 150]

The populous loves the pretenders here. Just turn on the liberal news media.

All opinion channel, not for a second, real news.

[Alladino]

17 hours ago, Robwin said:

Because the majority in the 2016 referendum voted to leave the EU and not be ruled by unelected morons in Brussels basically which is run to all extents by Germany or for their purpose.

And whats this Peoples vote crap?, its called a referendum or can't you make yourself say that word. We have already had one and Referendums are not the best of 3 and the result was leave. I know many people find it difficult to understand.

Or is your view that we keep holding referendums until the hierarchy get the result they want eh 

The biggest stupid thing of all is to hold on to a decision, even though you know better now. There's one thing you should consider. Meanwhile, all the ridiculous claims of all these BREXIT populists have been refuted. There is no simple solution that only brings advantages. 

So far I always thought BJ was something like the smarter version of Trump. Considering this actions and this speek I am not so sure anymore About the beeing smart thing.:

 

 

[Robwin]

27 minutes ago, Alladino said:

The biggest stupid thing of all is to hold on to a decision, even though you know better now. There's one thing you should consider. Meanwhile, all the ridiculous claims of all these BREXIT populists have been refuted. There is no simple solution that only brings advantages. 

So far I always thought BJ was something like the smarter version of Trump. Considering this actions and this speek I am not so sure anymore About the beeing smart thing.:

Don't worry he will get there one way or the other.

[Dave 27]

19 hours ago, Robwin said:

Because the majority in the 2016 referendum voted to leave the EU and not be ruled by unelected morons in Brussels basically which is run to all extents by Germany or for their purpose.

And whats this Peoples vote crap?, its called a referendum or can't you make yourself say that word. We have already had one and Referendums are not the best of 3 and the result was leave. I know many people find it difficult to understand.

Or is your view that we keep holding referendums until the hierarchy get the result they want eh 

I cannot recall if the ballot paper for the EU referendum stated that if the UK voted leave it would be with a deal because this is what is causing this shambles.Correct me if I'm wrong but it was simply a choice of remain or leave.Boris and his cronies spouted about the billions of pounds it was costing the country to be an EU member and a lot of people fell for it and in the meantime it has cost billions to try for a deal.I doesn't matter which way anyone voted I think leave should be leave end of.His credibility as a fit Prime Minister must surely be in doubt after yesterday's supreme court ruling,a gamble which has failed miserably.

It's little wonder why I want my country independent.

[Robwin]

5 minutes ago, Dave 27 said:

I cannot recall if the ballot paper for the EU referendum stated that if the UK voted leave it would be with a deal because this is what is causing this shambles.Correct me if I'm wrong but it was simply a choice of remain or leave.Boris and his cronies spouted about the billions of pounds it was costing the country to be an EU member and a lot of people fell for it and in the meantime it has cost billions to try for a deal.I doesn't matter which way anyone voted I think leave should be leave end of.His credibility as a fit Prime Minister must surely be in doubt after yesterday's supreme court ruling,a gamble which has failed miserably.

It's little wonder why I want my country independent.

Independent but wants to stay in the EU being ruled by those morons in Brussels and you reckon us southerners are thick 😁😁😁

5.4 million people in the whole of Scotland, there's 8.1 million just in London. Take away UK support and you would disappear faster than RLC 😀😀😀. Enjoy all your freebies now as you wouldn't get them then.

[Maturin]

I think the people that keep repeating, "Leave means leave end of," are scared of another referendum because the country didn't actually find out what leaving would mean until after the vote.

We now know that Leave actually means massive economic uncertainty and a contraction of the ecomny by at least a disasterous 5%.

Now the rational leave voters know what it would do to the country to vote leave, they will vote to remain and the "leave means leave," fanatics will lose.

So in the words of Jagger, you can't always get what you want. End of.

[Robwin]

20 minutes ago, Dave 27 said:

I cannot recall if the ballot paper for the EU referendum stated that if the UK voted leave it would be with a deal because this is what is causing this shambles.

What is causing all the shambles as you put it is all those fucking MPs who voted for article 50 don't really want to leave at all and are using every trick in the book to frustrate the process including that poisen dwarf up in your area. But don't worry, one way or the other Boris will do it even if it takes a general election to wipe all the ass lickers out.